Amy Proctor

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« After Action Review | Main | St. Nicholas »
Thursday
22Dec2005

Christmas is Better Than a Season's Greeting

waronchristmas.jpgThanks in large part to John Gibson’s book, ‘The War on Christmas’, public awareness and discourse over Christmassy greetings have sparked controversy because of the terms "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Holidays". Christmas means literally "the Mass of Christ".

Here is a brief history of Christmas in America:

In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. The Godly or parliamentary party, working through and within the elected parliament in the 1640s in England clamped down on the celebration of Christmas and other saints’ and holy days, a prohibition which remained in force on paper and more fitfully in practice until the Restoration of 1660.

The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, did not celebrate Christmas in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. The celebration of Christmas was practiced by Roman Catholics in America and eventually Protestants took up the celebration as well. Christmas was declared a federal holiday on June 26, 1870.

With that established, Christmas is necessary to the holiday. It is not immaterial to complain about the secularization of Christmas nor the attempts to take Christ out of the Holy Day altogether. Indeed, there is no "holy day" without "Christmas". There is no "Season" without Christ.

THE "HOLIDAY SEASON" IS NOT ABOUT KWANZAA

icon.gifKwanzaa  is not an African celebration, but an African-American celebration. It is a non-religious celebration strategically coinciding with the Christian Holiday of Christmas. It is celebrated between December 26 and January 1 and focuses on black unity, community and self-determination. Kwanzaa was conceived in 1966 by Dr. Mualana Karenga, although it didn’t catch on as a holiday for several years. Dr. Karenga, a felon and anti-white activist, played a key role in Black United Front efforts serving on the founding and the executive committee of the Black Power Conferences of the 60’s, the Black United Front, the National African American Leadership Summit, the Black Leadership Retreat and the Million Man March/Day of Absence. Kwanzaa can hardly be called a "holiday", i.e., "holy day."

THE "HOLIDAY SEASON" IS NOT ABOUT ATHEISM

Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Atheists cannot celebrate Christmas, then, as we know it by virtue of their own philosophy, but can "celebrate" the Winter Solstice. No "holy day" going on with the atheists. 

THE "HOLIDAY SEASON" IS NOT ABOUT WINTER SOLSTICE

Solstice means "standing-still-sun". Winter solstice is when, because of the earth’s tilt, the northern hemisphere is leaning farthest away from the sun, and therefore the daylight is the shortest. The sun has its lowest arc in the sky. Winter Solstice includes a 12 day observance that usually begins around December 21 or 22. This period can be appreciated by all but is celebrated by mostly pagans, secularists and some agnostics and atheists. While it legitimately occurs during the Christmas Season,   Winter Solstice cannot be called a "holiday", either.


THE "HOLIDAY SEASON" IS NOT ABOUT HANUKKAH/CHANUKAH (although, getting warmer!)

hanuk.gifHanukkah,  the Festival of Lights, is a celebration of the victory of the Maccabees and the rededication of the Jerusalem Temple. It also commemorates the miracle of the oil that burned for 8 days. The celebration usually falls in the end of November or beginning of December but varies since the Jews base their year on the lunar calendar as opposed to the solar calendar. This year, Hanukkah falls on December 25, 2005 - January 02, 2006 "Chanukah is not a very important religious holiday. The holiday’s religious significance is far less than that of Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot, Passover, and Shavu’ot. It is roughly equivalent to Purim in significance, and you won’t find many non-Jews who have even heard of Purim! Chanukah is not mentioned in Jewish scripture; the story is related in the book of Maccabbees, which Jews do not accept as scripture. The only religious observance related to the holiday is the lighting of candles." Hanukkah/Chanukah can be considered a "holiday" and is appreciated by Christians since, without Judaism, there would be no Christianity.

THE "HOLIDAY SEASON" IS ABOUT CHRISTMAS!

(for the low-down on St. Nicholas and Christian tradition in Christmas, link here)

Jesus_manger.gifSome say that the "separation of Church & State" make Christmas problematic.  The so called separation of Church and State is not a constitutional tenet but a reference in a private letter   from Thomas Jefferson to a minister.  In fact, Jefferson  also said in the very same letter:

-"Our sentiments are uniformly on the side of religious liberty"
-"May God strengthen you.."
-"And may the Lord preserve you safe from every evil and bring you at last to his heavenly kingdom through Jesus Christ our Glorious Mediator."

The Declaration of Independence states that "all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

The United States is a government of the people, by the people, for the people   Over 80% of Americans claim Christian affiliation or preference, although whether 80% of Americans act like Christians is still in dispute.  Christians have no reason to limit their freedom expression and worship to their homes. The Constitution allows for freedom OF religion and the free exercise THEREOF, and the church is to be protected by the state, not pushed into their homes to worship out of the public eye.

Attacks on Christmas

To take Christ out of Christmas is to have no "happy holiday", because it is no longer a holy day. It is a federally approved gift giving occasion which the federal government would be hard pressed to support. The "holiday" would cease to exist because it would have no foundation nor merit.  It’s an all or nothing proposition. You cannot minimize Christ in this holiday or it ceases to exist at every level, and all celebrate it in some form or other. 

To deny Christian roots in America is foolish when those roots, like them or not, are what has given the minority of pagans and heathen the safety of expression not afforded many other cultures and countries.  They should thank a Christian every day for public expressions of religion because it affords them their own freedom of expression.

If pagans, atheists and secularists are offended by "Merry Christmas", they should go to work or neglect family during Dec. 24-25. The Christian holiday, Christmas, benefits EVERYONE and even they have the luxury of family time and a paid vacation. They are foolish to complain. There is nothing offensive about Christmas… a newborn baby being born to a holy family.

While some feel Christians are unrealistic in their desire to preserve the salutation, "Merry Christmas", and in fact it is mocked by secularists, all that is needed is a swift look backwards in history to see that the assault on Christianity in America occurs in baby-steps. Prayer taken out of public schools, religious private schools forced to hire personnel whose lifestyles overtly contradict religious values, the Supreme Court hearing cases to limit the free exercise of religion and the ACLU’s relentless pursuit to abolish it in the public square, despite the undeniable foundation Christianity has played in the formation of our government and law.

If we don’t keep Christmas as it was intended to be, that is, to insist that it be declared (if not celebrated) as the birth of Jesus Christ, then no one will insist and it will decline into a secular momento. The fact is that all other groups who could be offended by a friendly "Merry Christmas" depend upon the holiday to celebrate their own beliefs, or else December 25th would be a working day as any other. The sharing, gift giving and "peace on earth" is ONLY the Christian message. 

So don’t be afraid to give Jesus His propers this "holiday season".  MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

 

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References (2)

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  • Response
    While some feel Christians are unrealistic in their desire to preserve the salutation, “Merry Christmas”, and in fact it is mocked by secularists, all that is needed is a swift look backwards in history to see that the assault on Christianity in America occurs in baby-steps.
  • Response
    As I am involved with the usual "Christmas Cheer" with my little family this weekend, I will not be posting another article until next week. HOWEVER, my friend Amy Proctor has two great articles regarding Christmas that I think everyone will want to read:

Reader Comments (69)

Yep! Couldn't agree with you more!
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAimz
Amy,

I take this post to wish you Merry CHRISTMAS and a New Year full of peace and joy for you and all your family and friends.

I make it extensive to all the people posting and commenting this blog.

Best wishes from Spain to the whole world.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJose Antunez
amy, you're mistaken about what atheism is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
It is the absence of belief in God, not (necessarily) the belief that there are no gods.

To me the special thing about christmas is that it is a time of year where nobody raises any eybrows at you for taking time off work to visit people you actually like. That's quite precious by itself.

Merry xmas.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
The word "athiest" comes from the greek <i>atheos</i> which means "no god". If you believe there are other gods beside YAWEH then you are a theist...period.
BTW-wikipedia is worse than useless as any Tom, Dick or Harriet can alter an entry to suit themselves.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJ Rob
The anarchic/democratic organisation of wikipedia is a strength as well as a potential weakness. The high-impact science journal Nature has compared wikipedia to traditional encyclopedias eg. Brittanica, and finds wiki to be comparable. (it's a small sample set, but a very detailed study).
Whatever, it's not useless.

The important distinction is lack of belief vs lack of god... j rob, you're following a red herring.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
Correct me if I'm wrong, Jez. You're saying atheism is the belief that there is no god, not necessarily the fact that there is no god? If you believe there is no god, what's the difference?
December 23, 2005 | Registered CommenterAmy Proctor
I wonder if anyone will complain if I start saying: "Merry birthday of MY Personal LORD and SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST!"

Would that be better or worse than a simple Merry Christmas?

P.S. I left you a message on the other thread jez.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterR.A.M.
jez: You said on the other thread most of your knowledge and wisdom was kept in your head. I might agree with the knowledge part, but disagree with much wisdom being there.

wikipedia is WORSE than useless, when it combines "correct" entries with "incorrect" entries! As JRob said, "--any Tom, Dick or Harriet can alter an entry to suit themselves."

How do you know what is real or not realthere, and how can we trust someone who uses this wikipedia as a reference "fact". If you are as "knowledgeable" as you would have us believe, please use "legitimate" references please.

Are you related to Dan Rather or Jason Blair? lol
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterR.A.M.
Stellar post as usual, Amy.

Just wanted to wish you and yours a very merry Christmas!
And of course a happy and blessed New Year.

God Bless,
Detroit Patriotette
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterDetroit Patriotette
Amy: atheism is the "Lack of belief in gods". which is different to belief that there are no gods.

RAM, anyone who uses a single reference work and treats it as "FACT" is misguided, imo. I'm not saying that wiki should replace your bibles.
If you use your head, wiki is a great resource. No resource is perfect. It's openness has certain advantages, which I'd have thought being right-wing you would all be quick to appreciate. I like using it because the process is open -- on any entry, I can easily read the discussion around the artical and evaluate the quality of the contributors. Eg. if there is a long-standing disagreement with firmly entrenched camps, that's probably indicative of an article in constant flux which frequently switches sides. Otherwise, I can see the direction and arguments which guided the contributors to a stable compromise... don't dismiss it just because it's anarchic. Imperfect is not the same is useless, still less "worse than useless". Read resources with some intelligence guys...
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
jez, spoken like a true liberal who can only see grays. There are black and white absolutes. Just because, jez, that fact doesn't allow you wiggle room if not a way to weasel yourself to rhetorical victory, doesn't mean that we are wrong or read that from a Bible.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterPCD
pcd, what?
all i've done is correct Amy's mistake about the meaning of the word "atheism". I'm right (about the technical meaning of the word). That's an absolute, I don't know what you're getting at.

or are you talking about my championing the wikipedia despite the fact that it might have errors (Are there any available books which are error-free?). Honestly, I don't understand your complaint PCD.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
Jez, with all due respect, I quoted the literal word and definition for "atheism". Your original decree that atheism "is the absence of belief in God, not (necessarily) the belief that there are no gods." is what's causing people to correct you.

As I originally said, if you're saying atheism is the belief that there is no god, not necessarily the fact that there is no god and you yourself believe there is no god, what's the difference?

The classical definition of atheism is what I quoted and I stand by it. I will look further into it when I have time, but it appears to ME that you are perhaps intermingling atheism with agnosticism.

December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Honestly, this is a technical matter on which I am correct. You can take this to the bank and use it as a deposit. Agnostisism is the belief that god's existence cannot be known. An atheist is simply anyone who is not a theist.
Check the wiki, which has a summary of the etymology (note the history of the words "theist" and "deist" to see why this is not a perfect way to settle the matter), and also http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/definitions.html which defines theist, atheist and agnostic.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
Jez, what do you make of Webster's definition?

Also, it sounds almost like 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. The site you quoted from reads:
=====================================
Definition: “Atheist”

Atheism is usually taken to be belief that god does not exist. More recently, however, some atheists have attempted to define atheism in more cautious terms, as nothing more than the absence of belief in God. This has complicated matters, introducing an ambiguity into the definition of “atheism”. One solution to this ambiguity is to distinguish between “weak atheism” and “strong atheism”.

-Weak atheism is defined as the absence of belief in God.

-A strong atheist, on the other hand, is someone who has the positive belief that God does not exist.
=============================================
Not to offend, but I think the difference is ridiculous and far from absolute. Both are the absence of belief in God. One stronger then the other. The dictionary defines it in absoulute terms.

Both, incidentally, are unfortunate.


December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
... that is, both strong and weak atheism are unfortunate....
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Hey Amy - I enjoyed reading your history of Christmas. Very nice. Warmest wishes to you and your family for Christmas.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commentertoni
amy: The set of strong athiests is a subset of the weak weak. But the distinction is not slight, and it's important because some political christians would love it if they were able to find symmetry between themselves and athiests. "It takes as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a christian". Not when you properly understand the meaning of "athiest", it doesn't.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
Wikipedia. There's a source. (Eyeroll)
Dictionary: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
2. The doctrine that there is no God or gods.

Point, game, set, match: AMY
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterDon Surber
Don, I quote Wikipedia sometimes when better sources cannot be found, and I am particularly fond of their disclaimer "The objectivity of this information is in dispute". Particularly when it comes to political issues and/or the war on terror and in Iraq. That's a hoot! Wikipedia is not an unbiased encyclopedia nor a dictionary.

Jez, in the spirit of Christmas, I'll not argue with you. I truly think whatever difference exists is not worth noting, but since you are one you obviously would be more sensitive to the difference. I just don't see it.

BUT.... I stand by what I wrote about atheism in my original post and don't believe it can be disproved. I believe this STRONGLY. ;)
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Happy Christmas to everyone! (in particular to Amy, Johnny, & your children, and also every commentator who wishes to be greeted thus!)

Re the above discussion: I think that a clearer idea of what "faith" means to different people, is helpful here. I PRESUME that to the "strong atheist" (ie, one who says "I definitely think that there is no god, I am pretty sure about that"), "faith" means something like "I definitely think so, though I admit there seems to be no real way of knowing for sure. So I think I'm right based on my observance of the world around me, and on human nature as I see it".
Now, to one who is not a Theist, but let's say that Christians have told him/her about Christianity, and that person has a need or desire, which it seems that Christ might be able to help them with...that person, if they decide to "give it a try", for them, "faith" has to be pretty much the same thing AT THE OUTSET. ie, "I'm willing to accept what these people are saying about God, that he exists and He can help me with my problem. I'm still not sure and I can see no objective proof, but I'll take a leap of trust...here goes!" It seems that you have to take a certain blind jump right at the start.

But to the "established" Christian, I think faith does not mean the above sort of thing. I for one, am not at a stage where I am inwardly saying to myself "I think I'm right, I sure hope I am right about all this God stuff, because I still have no real reasons to know for sure that I'm right". The point I'm making is that God DOES reveal himself to one who seeks Him. Not in a strictly scientific way of course; I cannot observe Him as a physical object in space. But the Holy Spirit does enlighten the inner being, and "proves" God inside the Christian, in a supernatural way, so that you do really "know for certain".
I realise that that is not much of an answer for the non-theist, it probably just sounds like religious gobbledegook. You have to take that "leap in the dark" before it becomes a reality. And for some, that leap is only ready to be taken when you're at the point of desperation, as it was for me.
However, "faith" means more than "blind hope".


December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterTom
Tom, I always love your comments! I'll expand more in a bit..
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Don: the context implied a technical meaning. Think about what "disbelief" means. As for "doctrine that there is no god", that's a practical consideration. Although I withold belief, I live as though there are no gods, so I guess that counts as a doctrine.
I think you're stretching etymology to far, Amy. The fact that the root of "holiday" is religious is not important to common usage. In modern times, it just means time off work.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered Commenterjez
I overheard my kids having a conversation with their friends today (ages 7-9). They were discussing Hannukah and Christmas. My kids said, Hannukah is fun, you should celebrate it. The Catholic boy said he believed Hannukah happened but he doesn't follow it. I intervened by saying we are all special and different and that is wonderful. Jez, as usual, is trying to stir up the pot here. Merry Christmas to the Proctor family and all you readers who celebrate it. Regardless of what you celebrate - enjoy spending time with friends and family.
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterGreta (Hooah Wife)
Jez, I think its fair to say that it is you who are stretching etymology! The consensus here is that holiday = holy day, eg, in the Queen's English, anyway, and the existence of God is aonly a question for fools - Psalm 14 & 53. Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukkah! The Son of David rules!
December 23, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJohnny
Amy, Merry Christmass to you and yours and the all readers of this blog.
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJaroslav
Jose', Merry Christmas to you as well.

Jez, coming from an atheist you statement that the "fact that the root of "holiday" is religious is not important to common usage. In modern times, it just means time off work." would make sense. However, it is vastly important. Did you not read the article, my friend? If you take Christ, a religious figure out of the holiday, it ceases to exist. It crumbles from the inside out and then nothing is left but a gift giving bonanza that the federal government cannot condone.

And to many if not most Americans, Christmas is not simply a day off of work. It is a very sacred religious occurrence that is anticipated throughout the entire year. I don't know about it in your country (you are a Brit, are you not?), but despite secularists gone wild in America, all, in some fashion or other, must take a bow to Christ in order for this holiday to have any significance whatsoever. And I suspect that deep inside they really do want to.




December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Jaroslav, MERRY CHRISTMAS, my friend!

Greta, as noted in my article, Hanukkah is the only other legitimate holy day of the "season" that can be included in the term, "Happy Holidays". Although, it is a lesser Jewish holiday as you know, but significant nonetheless. Holidays centered around God in whatever fashion make for the best occassions because God is not a narcissist demanding our friendship be only with Him, but rather He is happy at our fellowship with one another, and this naturally flows from religious holidays.
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor

AMY -

Thanks for a really interesting read! As you can see, I posted an article about YOUR articles.

I also included a link to an article in WIKIPEDIA (as silence comes over the room!) that has lots of really great information on Saint Micholas - including his involvement in the FIRST COUNCIL OF NICAEA in 325 AD (where Christ's divinity was being determined).

On YOUR articles - I especially enjoyed your breakdown of the celebrations. KWANZAA ~ That fake/invented holiday that NO ONE in Africa has ever heard of, was nothing but a black racists way of further separating Americans.

Anyhow, Hat Tip to you -- and a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS to the Proctor Family!!!

December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterTimmer ~ Righting America
Thank you so much, Timmer. I'm always happy when you like my articles. This one was particularly fun to write. Fact finding missions are my favorite.

And yes, it is very interesting to see the real Santa Claus, ie., St. Nick, being an important part of the Council of Nicaea. He was truly something else, full of benevolence and protecting the faith from heresy.

Thanks for the plug and I'm wishing you wonderful Merry Christmas!
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor

Amy - one more thing...

I just made a new T-Shirt design yesterday with you in mind. Check it out...I think you will get a few yucks!

White T-Shirt Design: http://logo.cafepress.com/2/1579150.1078102.jpg

Black T-Shirt Design:
http://www.rightingamerica.us/pichost/Conservatives_Rule_black2.jpg

Since you were my inspiration, go ahead and choose a shirt (or other item) from my CafePress site and I will have it shipped to you! (send me your address and shirt size via email).

Merry CHRISTMAS!!!

December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterTimmer ~ Righting America
Hey Jez, I looked up atheist in my dictionary, and guess what I found? Just 4 letters: A C L U
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterRuth
You just let everyone know your a BIGOT.
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered Commenter123
Yes, 123, anonymous as usual. I'm a bigot based on what? I am willing to turn from my ways if you can produce evidence I am indeed a biogot.

Save me from my bigotted ways! I'm waiting.... explanation, please....
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy P
PS.. it'd be "you're a bigot", not "your a bigot."
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy P
Timmer, I'm flattered! I think I'll be getting a black t-shirt.
December 24, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy P
Merry Christmas to you and yours!
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJo
Merry Christmas!
Love the background on your blog - very pretty! :)
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterDeb
I stand by my original comment, one cannot acknowledge the existance of any deity and still be an atheist, wikipedia and all other semantic gymnastics not withstanding. Not a red herring, just a reminder that words mean things and redefining them on a whim is not good debate.
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJ Rob
MERRY CHRISTMAS ONE AND ALL!!!
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterJ Rob
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!

Timmer, I'll be e-mailing you!
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Isn't John Gibson that angry pro-white pundit on the Fox News channel?

I find it interesting you took time to attack Kwaanza, Hannukah and winter solstice despite the fact that it's highly unlikely that Jesus was born on December 25th.

>>>" Luke 2:8 mentions that shepherds were living in their fields keeping watch over their flocks during the nighttime (and, one would assume, also during the daytime.) This is a good indication that Jesus' birth did not happen in December when the flocks would have already have been moved from the fields to pens. They were only in the fields during the hotter months. There is a remark in the Talmud that flocks were put out to grass in March and brought in during the beginning of November. During the Jewish month of Heshvan (our October/November) the fall rains hit and the animals are penned up. At best, the passage narrows down the birth month to one of 7 months in the late spring, summer, or early fall."

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_date.htm ">According to Scripture</a>

The date of December 25th is Saturnalia, a pagan holiday, inculcated into the Christianity movement.

Also pagan is Santa Claus, Christmas trees, mistletoe, yule logs and darned near every other secular idolatrous trimming in Corporate Christmas, but you seem to reserve your criticism for Kwaanza and Hannukah.

Why is that?

--Cobra
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterCobra
A very Merry Christmas to you and yours, Amy...
Hope you all had a very nice one this year......
AubreyJ.........
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAubreyJ
Amy,

Just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas!!

Oh, just for the sake of this conversation, I celebrate Christmas (the Birth of Jesus Christ, my personal Lord and Savior) every day of the year. Still, it is nice for the day to be set aside for wide spread recognition of the day that split time in history.

God Bless you and your family this Christmas Season!!

Chris
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterChris
Aubrey, Merry Christmas to you! And Chris, well said! Blessings on you and your family.

December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor


AMY -

Sounds good...will check my inbox again later. Hope Santa was good to you!?

December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterTimmer ~ Righting America
Dear Cobra,

I don't think John Gibson is the one who's angry. Pro-white? While I have no idea where you base your facts, I don't think it behooves anyone to be anti-white, do you? Remember... Jesus wasn't white! Yet He loves whites as much as anyone else... so in the spirit of the 'holidays', let's be like Him. ;)

Put down the rhetoric and step away from the liberal jargon... I was not attacking Kwanzza, winter solstice and especially not Hanukkah. I have a great fondness for the Jewish people, especially since my Savior is Jewish. Jewish holidays are amazing, particularly The winter solstice is a scientific fact and occurrence. I cannot attack it anymore than I would attack the rising of the sun (and yes I understand the sun doesn't actually rise but the earth revolves around the sun). As for Kwanzaa, although I don't personally respect it, I don't attack it. It is not a "holy day" was my point.

As for Christmas, I focused on American history regarding Christmas celebration, not the accuracy of Jesus' birth. I understand he was not born on December 25th. I also think that's beside the point. However, you cannot offer PROOF that it wasn't on Dec. 25th just as I cannot offer PROOF that it was. America has celebrated nationally Christmas as a holiday since 1870. That, however, is the point.

You said, "The date of December 25th is Saturnalia, a pagan holiday, inculcated into the Christianity movement."

Not in America. I am not focusing on world history, but American. Also, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah and "winter solstice" have never been federal holidays in America. Christmas has been since 1870. Again, that was my point.

Finally, you said: "Also pagan is Santa Claus, Christmas trees, mistletoe, yule logs and darned near every other secular idolatrous trimming in Corporate Christmas, but you seem to reserve your criticism for Kwanzaa and Hanukkah.

Why is that?"

My friend, Santa Clause is hardly pagan. Nor are the other Christmas symbols. Martin Luther popularized the lighting of the tree, by the way. I wrote, just below this post, an entry on Santa and what he really means to Christmas. You might want to read it before making such asinine statements.

http://amyproctor.squarespace.com/blog/2005/12/22/st-nicholas.html
December 25, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Amy, I answered Cobra on the other thread, and it will be the last time. "Cobra" has already shown "it's" hand to only come to spread hate and disinformation.

It really does seem the liberals are getting dumber by the day. Then again, maybe we, (Patriotic Americans of ALL political parties who love GOD, Family and Country), are "catching on" to the "America haters"!

As I said on the other thread. Cobra doesn't even hide what he/she/it is. What does a Cobra do? Sneak up, try to fool you, then attack.

I really wouldn't be surprized if Cobra were a terrorist. "It" wants ther Patriot Act" dead. I want "terrorists" dead, and if I were not so old and ill, I would reinlist and go do JUST THAT!!!

Happy New Year to ALL, but the haters like Cobra! BTW Cobra, although I will probably read if you answer, I will NOT waste my time responding to you, but like a good "watchful American", I WILL keep an eye on you and your kind!

It is what ALL Americans MUST do from now on!
December 26, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterR.A.M.
I thought the phrasing he used in saying he hoped the Patriot Act would crash and burn was unsettling. Certainly all terrorists would agree with his sentiment. I think it's appropriate to put the burden of proof on him if he is going to level such asinine statements about either Christianity or America. Surely he can back up what he says. ;)
December 26, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterAmy Proctor
Amy,

This is not an attack on you. I just wish to have a dialogue. We don't have to agree on anything, by the way, for us to have a dialogue.

You write:

>>>"My friend, Santa Clause is hardly pagan. Nor are the other Christmas symbols. Martin Luther popularized the lighting of the tree, by the way. I wrote, just below this post, an entry on Santa and what he really means to Christmas."

Can you point out in the scriptures where "St. Nicholas" is mentioned? Or Christmas trees, mistletoe, yule logs, etc? I've yet to come across any of these things in my Bible. And if it didn't originate from the Bible, exactly whose ideas were they?

Amy writes:

>>>" I don't think it behooves anyone to be anti-white, do you? Remember... Jesus wasn't white! Yet He loves whites as much as anyone else... so in the spirit of the 'holidays', let's be like Him. ;)"


Never claimed anybody was "anti-white." I take John Gibson at his words on the air. And not to nitpick, but the image of the Nativity at the top of your blog doesn't seem to support your statement about the race of Jesus. Not that I disagree with it, by the way.

Now, back to pagan idolatry. The Backyard Gardener has an interesting article on the history of mistletoe, holly and Christmas trees, here:

http://www.backyardgardener.com/article/green/1381.htm

Another article about the mixture of ancient Catholicism and Norse mythology surrounding Santa Claus.

http://realmagick.com/articles/14/2014.html

Now, reasonable people can disagree on the amount of influences, but anything to do with Odin worship has to be considered pagan on its face.

--Cobra




December 26, 2005 | Unregistered CommenterCobra

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