Christians Struggle in Egypt

Fox has this moving segment on Egyptian Christians persecuted for their faith by Muslims:

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Comments

[Dim Bulb]

Violence against the Copts has been increasing greatly, aided by the implimentation of islamic law:
http://www.cswusa.com/Countries/Egypt.htm

One of the more disgusting aspects of what is taking place is the rape, forced conversion, and forced marriage of under-age Coptic girls to Muslim men:
http://www.human-rights-and-christian-persecution.org/coptic.html

[Leticia]

And they say that Christians are the ones who are intolerable to the other religions?! You don't see us wielding knives and setting up riots to hurt someone if they don't share the same religion as us.

I am so thankful I live in a country where I can go to church freely without any fear of bodily harm or even death.

[Amy Proctor]

Leticia is OBVIOUSLY brainwashed. The United States is worst country in the world and Christianity the root of all oppression. Don't you watch CNN??

;)

[BB-Idaho]

The Copts believe they were the first gentile Christians, converted by St. Mark. At
http://www.coptic.net/EncyclopediaCoptica/ we find an interesting history of this religion. Because their
beliefs were at odds with catholicism (eg monophysite), they were mercilessly persecuted by
'mainline' Christianity. They were treated relatively well for the next 1400 years by the Muslim conquerers. Now they are once again victims, this time because they are a disturbing minority, certainly not because they are other than gentle ancient Christians. The Copts may suffer, but they will survive.

[Dim Bulb]

BB-Idaho,

If you think they're being persecuted simply because they are a "disturbing minority" rather than because they are Christian then you are a fool. Did you happen to read the first link I gave in my earlier comments?
http://www.sullivan-county.com/id3/copts.htm

[Dim Bulb]

Notice what BB did. He/she brought up conflict between Christians which took place 1400-plus years ago while excusing-and this in the face of evidnece- what Muslims are doing today. And he/she has done this on a web-site hosted by a Catholic who posted on the subject out of conern for the Copts. Typical "open-mided" islamofacist loving liberalism at work. Hey, BB, if in your hatred of Christianity you're going to dredge up 1400 year old events while ignoring the plight of modern day Christians why not just answer the call of the minaret and be done with it.

[CalPatriot]

"They were treated relatively well for the next 1400 years by the Muslim conquerers. "

That is a propagandist reinvented history, BB. Not only did the Coptic Christians run, flee and escape like madmen escaping form prison when the noble princes of Poland and Peter the Great late 18th-19th century, opened holes in the Muslim strongholds of the Ottoman empire, but the Muslim gnashed their teeth at the loss of cheap slave labor, lamented at such a loss they never recovered their dominance. Ask yourself if they loved it so much why did they flee for their lives? It can be said in the early centuries of the Ottomans that the Sultans formed laws to protect the Coptic’s after killing so many in conquest, but this era doesn’t have surviving first source documentation to tell us one way or the other if they got along peacefully. All we know was they were allowed to live their lives in quarters over seen by Muslim spies and forced to pay heavy taxes to the Sultanate. Most called this survival. The Christens that rose to prominence in the early years of the Ottomans were forced converts, who went back and had to kill their relatives to show they were for real. By the mid-16th century all Christians were banned form Ottoman forces, as one can understand when the Catholics raised to combat Islamic hegemony in Europe the Coptics were seen as a liability more than an asset.

When we get into the Iberian question, I can only find two instances of peaceful coexistence, which spanned only about 40 years. I understand that this was Catholics against Moors, but the Ottomans got involved too. So what say of the other 760 years of Muslim domination in Iberia? Living peacefully together in Iberia was a myth, and has been debunked by major historians in the finest universities in America and Europe.

There was only roughly 50-100 years in Abbasid Empire in Baghdad that say relative peace between Coptic Christianity and Islam. Most of the time Coptics were hostages forced to translate western documents, and were not free people. Forget the Umayyad in Africa and Anatolia, they outright dominated the Coptic Christians. Muhammad the Prophet, who started the Islamic era didn’t look onto Christian Coptics as any sort of ally.

The doublespeak of religious peaceful rhetoric doesn’t coincide with actually the realities of historiography.

[Pennsylvania Independent]

A Presidential Order to build a church? And i thought it was a pain in the rear to get the permits needed for my sewage system to build my home.
What would I need in Egypt to start a synagogue? I would hate to ask.

[Pennsylvania Independent]

My ancestors can relate, because they left Nazi Germany for the same reason. Religious persecution.

[Amy Proctor]

PA Indy,

"A Presidential Order to build a church? And i thought it was a pain in the rear to get the permits needed for my sewage system to build my home.
What would I need in Egypt to start a synagogue? I would hate to ask."

LOL!

[Donna]

I read more and more about how Christians are being beheaded by muslim fanatics. Two school girls were beheaded recently and in Iraq a 14-year-old boy was beheaded after he verified to his muslim captors that, yes, he was a Christian...

[Tim]

"My ancestors can relate, because they left Nazi Germany for the same reason. Religious persecution."

And you still have Islamofascism to worry about. If it makes you feel better, its only because Jews are Gods' chosen. Pure jealousy.

[grumpy old fart]

Ain't religion wonderful?

[Tim]

"Ain't religion wonderful?"

Oh, please. I hope this isn't the beginning of one of those "people die because of religion speeches". Its old. Vietnam was not over religion. WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with religion. The Civil and Revolutionary Wars were not over religion. Of course, I could state that about 1 million people are killed here in America every year do to non-religion. Particularly Christianity.

[Amy Proctor]

Donna, I've read the same things.

Grumpy, true religion is taking care of the poor, sick and vulnerable, loving your neighbor and worshipping God. So, yes, religion is wonderful. False religions are poison.

[Trent]

"Ain't religion wonderful?"

The religious track record fares better than a secular one.

[Hawkeye]

Hi Amy,

I know an Egyptian fellow who is a Coptic Christian. He's a good man. He can't believe what's going on over there.

But we shouldn't be surprised by persecution. Jesus told us to expect it...

"Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you". (John 15:20)

"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account". (Matthew 5:11)

"When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next". (Matthew 10:23)

"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake". (Matthew 24:9)

"And as they led him away, they seized one Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and laid on him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus. And there followed him a great multitude of the people, and of women who bewailed and lamented him. But Jesus turning to them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children... For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?" (Luke 23:26-28,31)

Your brother in Christ...

[Dim Bulb]

Most religions will tell you that wisdom comes with age; Grumpy Old Fart is determined to prove them wrong.

Most conflicts in world history have been mostivated by greed (for land or resources) or political ideaology. War, being so terrible, by its very nature gives rise to "conversion", there are not atheists in fox-holes as the saying goes. To cope with the horror of war many turn to religion, thus giving the impression that a particular war was motivated by religion. Even commuinist Russia, during WWII began to encourage the idea of "Holy Mother Russia" which it had spent a generation trying to exterminate. (Ain't secularism wonderful?).

America is sometimes called "the most religious country in the world" but how many of its numerous wars and conflicts have been motivated by religion? As far as I can tell, only one. The war with Japan was religiously motivated but, of course, that motivation came from Japan, not us.

[grumpy old fart]

Tim,

"Oh, please. I hope this isn't the beginning of one of those "people die because of religion speeches"

So, the persecution of the Coptics isn't about their religion?

[Tim]

"So, the persecution of the Coptics isn't about their religion?"

So all the wars I listed above were because of religion?

[grumpy old fart]

"So all the wars I listed above were because of religion?"

Did I ever say they were?