Hillary & Obama Don’t Care What Commanders Say, They are 'Committed to Withdrawal'
Thursday, April 17, 2008 at 02:41PM Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama made it crystal clear at last night’s presidential debate that they will not listen to commanders on the ground in Iraq about the mission, although Obama conceded he would listen to “tactical advice” given only from missions he sets. How bipartisan. Hillary made it clear that “our commitment to withdrawal” would be the policy in a Clinton administration, despite the conditions on the ground.
MR. GIBSON: Let me just add a little bit to that question, because your communications director in your campaign, Howard Wolfson on a conference call recently was asked, “Is Senator Clinton going to stick to her announced plan of bringing one or two brigades out of Iraq every month whatever the realities on the ground?” And Wolfson said, “I’m giving you a one-word answer so we can be clear about it, the answer is yes.”
So if the military commanders in Iraq came to you on day one and said this kind of withdrawal would destabilize Iraq, it would set back all of the gains that we have made, no matter what, you’re going to order those troops to come home?
SENATOR CLINTON: Yes, I am, Charlie. And here’s why: You know, thankfully we have a system in our country of civilian control of the military. And our professional military are the best in the world. They give their best advice and then they execute the policies of the president. I have watched this president as he has continued to change the rationale and move the goalposts when it comes to Iraq.
And I am convinced that it is in America’s best interest, it is in the best interest of our military, and I even believe it is in the best interest of Iraq, that upon taking office, I will ask the secretary of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and my security advisers to immediately put together for me a plan so that I can begin to withdraw within 60 days. I will make it very clear that we will do so in a responsible and careful manner, because obviously, withdrawing troops and equipment is dangerous.
I will also make it clear to the Iraqis that they no longer have a blank check from the president of the United States, because I believe that it will be only through our commitment to withdraw that the Iraqis will begin to do what they have failed to do for all of these years.
I will also begin an intensive diplomatic effort, both within the region and internationally, to begin to try to get other countries to understand the stakes that we all face when it comes to the future of Iraq.
But I have been convinced and very clear that I will begin to withdraw troops within 60 days.
MR. GIBSON: So you’d give the same rock-hard pledge, that no matter what the military commanders said, you would give the order: Bring them home.
SENATOR OBAMA: Because the commander in chief sets the mission, Charlie. That’s not the role of the generals. And one of the things that’s been interesting about the president’s approach lately has been to say, well, I’m just taking cues from General Petraeus.
Well, the president sets the mission. The general and our troops carry out that mission. And unfortunately we have had a bad mission, set by our civilian leadership, which our military has performed brilliantly. But it is time for us to set a strategy that is going to make the American people safer.
Now, I will always listen to our commanders on the ground with respect to tactics. Once I’ve given them a new mission, that we are going to proceed deliberately in an orderly fashion out of Iraq and we are going to have our combat troops out, we will not have permanent bases there, once I’ve provided that mission, if they come to me and want to adjust tactics, then I will certainly take their recommendations into consideration; but ultimately the buck stops with me as the commander in chief.
What arrogance. What military experience do either Clinton or Obama have that would trump that of commanders on the ground who have lived in Iraq for years? Americans can conclude that this is completely political and not about America, Iraq or the humanitarian crisis that will be left behind.
I don’t think it’s logistically possible to move 2 Brigades a month out of Iraq. Hillary seems positively deranged on this issue.
Hillary’s comment that ”it will be only through our commitment to withdraw that the Iraqis will begin to do what they have failed to do for all of these years” is one that contradicts the statements from troops on the ground who have successfully helped security come to Iraq. It is our commitment to stay that motivates Iraqis, not by threats to pull out. But that’s only if you believe our soldiers in Iraq who have won hard fought peace. Apparently Hillary doesn’t.
It’s good to see the Democrats completely box themselves into a corner with their anti-Iraq rhetoric. The responsibility then will completely be laid at their feet if (God forbid) either should be come President.
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Reader Comments (25)
They are desperate to win their primary so they will say anything.
This kind of reckless pandering will cause a strategic earthquake should it ever become policy. It is the Iraqis, the State Department and the field commanders who are urging patience. It is the terrorists and extremists who benefit from the threats of preciptous withdrawal. It is the American people that will lose if we forfiet all credibility for military action in the ME by a withdrawal in the position of weakness. An unstable ME = skyrocketing energy costs and emboldened terrorists.
These people are quick to play fast and loose with other peoples' money (your taxes) and other peoples' live (military and state department employees). To them military servicemembers are so many pawns and tokens. These hypocrites pledge that they're only acting on behalf of the military members and their families while promising to ignore the advice of field commanders.
May God have mercy on us by not allowing these political charlatans the opportunity to forfiet the hard fought gains we have made in Iraq when we are on the verge of lasting success.
It is obvious that the 08 bumper stickers for Hillary and Obama should read:
Save Darfur/Free Tibet/Screw Iraq
Vote Democrat in 08
This is not surprising from a party who's solution for everything is "Blame Bush".
It's worked out great so far for their 17% Congressional majority.
There has been way to much progress for the Dems to be able to cut and run in Iraq in 09 and be able to blame it on Bush.The world community will hold the Democrats responsible for the genocide and war that
breaks out in the Mid-East region after our Military,the Un,and anybody based in reality has warned them
ahead of time of the consequences of their cut and run policies.
McCain should hammer them mercilessly on this issue.
Here is more evidence of progress in Iraq from our Soldiers on the ground there:
Now They Have Turned to the Tribes
Micheal Totten
April 17, 2008
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/04/now-they-have-t.php
MJT: How compatible is tribal law with a democratic system? Are they merging the two systems, or basically still using the old-world authoritarian model?
Captain Jones: The way to approach it is, there is still a need for the tribal way of life, but we're trying to make it more democratic at the same time. They're parallel. The true part is run by the democratic process. If you look at countries like Bahrain or Dubai – the UAE – they still have a strong tribal base, but they’re somewhat democratic in their governance and the way they approach things. You can't move forward or progress as a country if you're stuck in the tribal way of life.
Apparently when the democrats talk about "Hope" they don't include the Iraqis.
Oh please, Bush has replaced at least 5 "Commanders/Generals on the ground" for disagreeing with Cheney.
Look it up.
This is blatant nonsense.
The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 04/18/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
I must say that regardless of what Obama or Clinton say or do their blind supporters will praise them for it.
I have spoken to people who are bent on putting one of them in the presidential seat just to see the Republicans booted out. They don't care what is being said, they just want a "change."
I find that kind of ignorance infuriating.
It's hardly ignorance to want republicans out of office. In fact, it's the opposite.
"Oh please, Bush has replaced at least 5 "Commanders/Generals on the ground" for disagreeing with Cheney.
Look it up."
Hey genius,
Lincoln changed Generals
FDR changed Generals
Look it up.
As usual,when liberals address situations with their ideology that is not supported by the facts(Our military,Iraqis,surrounding countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt,Democratic and Republican representatives,and institutions like the Brookings institute have all stated the genocide and possible all out war
that will take place if we abandon Iraq)they bring up incredible analysis like:
"This is blatant nonsense"
Wow!! that really puts our military leaders and the people on the ground in Iraq in their place.
Our enemies are counting on liberal sheep that are blind to the realities in Iraq:
April 4, 2008
Compare and Contrast
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/2008/04/020215.php
Ayman al-Zawahiri, from his online chat a few days ago :
As-Sahab: And what is the most important field in which this Mujahid vanguard is wrestling with the enemies of Islam?
Zawahiri: Iraq is the most important of these fields.
Nancy Pelosi, from her press conference yesterday:
As we've said before and I'll end by saying: How is this war in Iraq helping us fight the war on terrorism, the real war on terrorism, Afghanistan?
Purported bin Laden message: Iraq is 'perfect base'
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/20/binladen.message/index.html
(CNN) -- Al-Jazeera broadcast on Thursday an audiotape on which a voice identified as Osama bin Laden declares "Iraq is the perfect base to set up the jihad to liberate Palestine."
Abandoning Iraq to Iran and Al-qaeda is the right thing to do according to the "super intelligent" liberals that
make up the democratic party.
Obama's "Hope" apparently does not apply to the Iraqi people
Speaking of changing generals...when Hillary is president, the generals will be singing a different tune.
What 5 Commanders/Generals on the ground has Bush replaced for disagreeing with Cheney? This is news to me and I follow the war pretty closely.
Commanders are in the war zone for 12-18 months at a time on average. Petraeus will be almost 2 years. They routinely rotate in and out so I don't understand what mud is talking about.
"Commanders are in the war zone for 12-18 months at a time on average. Petraeus will be almost 2 years. They routinely rotate in and out so I don't understand what mud is talking about."
How can you Amy,mud doesn't understand what mud is talking about.
Hillary and Barack or both jokes! They will say anything to get themselves in the White House. They have no idea what they are saying. The terrorist are loving the crap that spews from their mouths! I can't wait till they both lose their attempt at the White House! We need a leader there and neither one of them are it.
Are you guys serious? You really don't know who or how many commanders have been replaced? Or how many 4 star generals who have resigned in protest? You can't be that uninformed.
"Speaking of changing generals...when Hillary is president, the generals will be singing a different tune."
Should be "speaking of bringing up a subject that has nothing to do with the disastrous consequences of cut and run in Iraq" because democrats know that genocide and possible all out war will ensue if we abandon Iraq,they just don't care.
It's all about senate seats,getting in the white house,and blaming Bush for the democrats.Not taking out a terrorist regime and bringing Freedom to the Iraqi people (that democrats happened to have voted for)
"When Hillary is President" is a pretty far stretch.
She can't even get the democratic nomination,much less the white house.
Watching the Clintons get torn apart by their own party has been absolutely hilarious.
Can't blame it on that "Vast right wing conspiracy" this time.
All we have heard from liberals since the 90's is how "intelligent" and "well spoken" Bill Clinton is and his Presidency was one of the "greatest" this country has ever seen.
But somehow the Clinton's can't use this "great" legacy to beat Obama,who has no record,much less a "legacy"
what-so-ever.
What a joke.
To say that Clinton's Generals will sing a different tune certainly implies that what General Petraeus has testified to in front of the senate is not true.
Here is some of General Petraeus's testimony(not question and answer)and relevant facts as to the progress in Iraq since September.
Please speak "truth to power" and point out where the Commander of forces in Iraq has lied.
Gen. Petraeus' Testimony to the Senate Armed Services Comm.
By David Petraeus
General David H. Petraeus, Commander, Multi-National Force-Iraq
Testimony to Senate Armed Services Committee
April 8, 2008
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/printpage/?url=http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/gen_petraeus_testimony_to_the.html
Since September, levels of violence and civilian deaths have been reduced substantially, Al Qaeda-Iraq and a number of other extremist elements have been dealt serious blows, the capabilities of Iraqi security force elements have grown, and there has been noteworthy involvement of local Iraqis in local security.
Iraq by the numbers: Graphing the decrease in violence
Written by Bill Roggio , Long War Journal
Thursday, 03 April 2008 11:26
http://iraqstatusreport.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=174&Itemid=3
Multinational Forces-Iraq has released the data of the effects of the "surge" on the security situation. The reduction in deaths, attack trends, sectarian violence, and improvised explosive device, suicide, and car bomb attacks is dramatic. The number of weapons caches found per year has more than doubled. The graphs below have been provided by Multinational Forces Iraq. Click each graph to view in detail.
Since this is not one of "hillary's Generals" maybe the NIE will help a little bit:
U.S. Study Finds Progress in Iraq, but Fragile Security and Potential for Terror Attacks
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/washington/04intel.html?_r=2&ei=5088&en=879990604b508c80&ex=1364961600&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1207282885-2S7DyII2zMeqcKKD9o5BdQ&pagewanted=print
April 4, 2008
By MARK MAZZETTI and ERIC SCHMITT
WASHINGTON—A new National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq cites significant security improvements and progress toward healing sectarian political rifts, but concludes that security remains fragile and terrorist groups remain capable of initiating large attacks, several American government officials said this week.
The classified document provides a more upbeat analysis of conditions in Iraq than the last major assessment by United States spy agencies, last summer. It was completed this week, just days before the top American commander in Iraq, Gen. David H. Petraeus, is due in Washington to give lawmakers a progress report on the military strategy in Iraq.
This video shows just how unfit the democrats are when it comes to true leadership:
Listen to the Generals
A contrast of the reality of what is going on in
Iraq from Petraeus against the cut and run
rhetoric from Obama and Hillary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR8p0bro9RM
Wow! Thanks, Baxter Greene! Everyone reading this blog should view this short but all-important video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR8p0bro9RM
BLUF: The democrats are lying to the American people and will plunge our nation into irreversible world war with their idiotic 'plan'.
OK kids - start with Admiral Fallon, and work your way backwards. Good grief Charlie Browns. Ignorance is not bliss.
And to take your tact - shouldn't Petreaus be rotated pretty soon?
Mudkitty, you have already shown that you do not possess a grasp of your subject matter with your errant references to bible verses that do not exist. Now you are averring that retirements and routine promotions and assumption of new posts is "4 star generals resigning in protest". Please provide links.
Fallon retired because he was too far into the political side and made statements in the press that were clearly at odds with the National Security Authority.
He was fired because he disagreed with Bush - so much for Bush listening to the "Generals." And Fallon is merely one example.
What errant references to bible verses? Site one errant reference.
Also - what do you mean by National Security "Authority?" There is no such thing.
National Security Council - I stand corrected, I had my acronyms confused. NSA = national security advisor.
Fallon himself disagrees with your assertion of his retirement, mud, as does Sec. Gates. He wasn't fired, he retired.
You said: He was fired because he disagreed with Bush - so much for Bush listening to the "Generals." And Fallon is merely one example.
Then you disagree with both Hillary and Obama who say Bush takes his orders from the generals and not the other way around? Glad to see you coming around.
Even though I'm not here to do your homework for you, here goes:
Nash
Pace
Zini
Batiste
Eaton
Swannack Jr.
And that's just the top tier. Bush/Cheney is destroying our great nation's military. Whenever you see Petreaus testifying, as he should, because he is, after all, accountable, you can tell he's cringing. Anyway, he's a career officer, who's NEVER seen a day of combat. He's just seen the results, and he, of all people should know better. But, he's a good soldier. He takes orders that go along the party lines.
"Even though I'm not here to do your homework for you, here goes:
Nash
Pace
Zini
Batiste
Eaton
Swannack Jr.
And that's just the top tier. Bush/Cheney is destroying our great nation's military. Whenever you see Petreaus testifying, as he should, because he is, after all, accountable, you can tell he's cringing. Anyway, he's a career officer, who's NEVER seen a day of combat. He's just seen the results, and he, of all people should know better. But, he's a good soldier. He takes orders that go along the party lines."
If this is what you call doing someone's homework,you obviously made failing grades in school.
No one here has disputed that Generals have not either retired or been reassigned.This happens in every war
genius.
The homework you need to do is showing proof that our Generals are not providing this country with accurate
information about what is going on in the War on Terror because they are "puppets of the Bush regime".
Since you have not provided any proof to back up your allegations,maybe this should be repeated to you very slowly.
Generals.....are....replaced.....in......every......war.
Lincoln replaced Generals
FDR replaced Generals
This....is....not....proof.....that....our......military.......leaders.....are......puppets.....of....President.....Bush.
Instead of patting yourself on the back so much telling everybody how smart you are(because reading your post's,it doesn't show),why don't you back up your left wing talking points with facts.
Or you could actually respond to the post as to why it is so intelligent to turn Iraq over to Al-qaeda and Iran like
your liberal heroes Obama and Clinton want to do.
Reputable institutions like Brookings,civilian and military leadership in this country and around the world including the UN,and the Iraqi people have all stated what a catastrophic mistake it would be to cut and run in
Iraq.
General Petraeus has testified (provided above) to the progress that has been made in Iraq and the consequences of cutting and running.
If all of this is just a charade by the Bush Administration please quit rambling about how "informed" you are and prove it by showing the facts on the ground to be false and proof that our Generals are Bush's puppets.
once again,
your.....left.....wing.....talking.....points.....are.....not.....considered......proof.....in.....the.....real.....world.
Your whinnying that Bush has "destroyed this great nation's military"is a joke.
Your hero Bill Clinton cut over 400,000 Soldiers,closed dozens of bases,slashed the military and intelligence
budgets at the same time that Al-qaeda had declared war on America.
When it comes to being uninformed,mud here is first in line.
While mud is proving how our military leaders are lying because they are Bush's puppets,
mud needs to get around to impressing all of us with her incredible level of intelligence by proving that the Iraqi people and their leadership is nothing but puppets of the Bush regime also:
http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/2008/04/new-notes.html
(The Mesopotamian blog: Alaa, Iraqi citizen)
Hi,
I was watching the Interrogation of General David Petraeus and the ambassador. What struck me most was the attitude and words from some of the Democratic senators. It seemed as though the enemy for these ladies and gentlemen was not Al-Qaeda, the terrorists or people like that. All the venom and harsh words were directed against the Iraqi government and poor Al-Maliki, these seemed to be the more hated foes for them. Not long ago we used to hear complaints that the Iraqi government was Shiite dominated and unwilling to take action against Shiite Militias and such groups as the Mahdi Army. Well when Al-Maliki at last moved decisively against such groups, it seems that the move did not please much these critics.
Iraqi FM against quick US troop pullout
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press WriterTue Mar 18, 4:10 PM ET
Iraq's foreign minister said Tuesday the risks of civil war have been averted after five years of "tears and blood." But he warned an abrupt withdrawal of U.S. troops would wipe away the security gains and other achievements and have disastrous consequences.
Maybe super intelligent mud can explain how her democratic heroes and their friends in the press kept telling
America weeks before General Petraeus was to testify that the Iraqi forces were defeated by Sadr in Basra.
That Maliki had suffered a humiliating defeat.
Seems the facts on the ground don't support this.
I guess mud is now going to tell us that the American,British,and Iraqi Soldiers involved in this fight are Bush's
puppets to:
Iraqi troops advance against Mahdi Army in Basrah
By Bill RoggioApril 19, 2008 10:38 AM
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/04/iraqi_troops_advance.php
Iraqi troops are now said to be in control of the neighborhood. "Our troops deployed in all the parts of the (Hayaniyah) district and controlled it without much resistance," Major General Abdul Karim Khalaf, a spokesman for the Ministry of the Interior told Reuters. "Now we are working on house-to-house checking. We have made many arrests."
Here are some more of "Bush's Puppets"
LET'S "SURGE"SOME MORE
By MICHAEL YON
April 11, 2008; Page A17
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120787343563306609.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries
It is said that generals always fight the last war. But when David Petraeus came to town it was senators – on both sides of the aisle – who battled over the Iraq war of 2004-2006. That war has little in common with the war we are fighting today.
I may well have spent more time embedded with combat units in Iraq than any other journalist alive. I have seen this war – and our part in it – at its brutal worst. And I say the transformation over the last 14 months is little short of miraculous.
The change goes far beyond the statistical decline in casualties or incidents of violence. A young Iraqi translator, wounded in battle and fearing death, asked an American commander to bury his heart in America. Iraqi special forces units took to the streets to track down terrorists who killed American soldiers. The U.S. military is the most respected institution in Iraq, and many Iraqi boys dream of becoming American soldiers. Yes, young Iraqi boys know about "GoArmy.com."
Mike Stokely Foundation makes changes in Yusifiyah
[Greyhawk]
http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/029882.html
By Staff Sgt. Tony M. Lindback, 3rd BCT, 101st Abn. Div. (AASLT)
PATROL BASE YUSIFIYAH, Iraq - Students and teachers had looks of joy - and bewilderment - as Soldiers handed out school supplies and toys at the Mullah Fayad School in Yusifiyah, Iraq, March 27.
Bush must be incredibly powerful to make this man his "Puppet" to.
BROWN UPBEAT ON "BUSH'S SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP"
By Alex Barker and Andrew Ward in Washington
Published: April 17 2008 21:49 | Last updated: April 17 2008 23:22
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c223f9d2-0cbc-11dd-86df-0000779fd2ac.html
Gordon Brown heaped praise on George W. Bush with language evoking Tony Blair on Thursday, as he sought to overcome the impression that the “special relationship” had entered a cooler phase.
Speaking at a joint press conference in the White House Rose Garden, Mr Brown said he stood “shoulder to shoulder” with Mr Bush in a transatlantic bond that was “stronger than ever”. “The world owes President Bush a huge debt of gratitude in leading the world in our determination to root out terrorism,” Mr Brown said.
It seems the only people acting like puppets are mud and her liberal friends in the press.
Whatever Reid and Pelosi say,the liberals repeat it like the good sheep they are.