Obama Excludes Military Service as Way to Serve Country in Memorial Day Weekend Commencement Speech
Monday, May 26, 2008 at 09:48AM CNN correspondents thought it “strange” that Barack Obama’s Memorial Day commencement speech at Wesleyan University didn’t mention the military. Obama, who replaced the ailing Ted Kennedy as commencement speaker, encouraged graduates to serve, but not in the military. CNN correspondent Bill Schnider took notice:
BLITZER: On this Memorial Day weekend, we’re remembering U.S. troops who have fallen in America’s various wars.
We’re also assessing right now what we just heard from Senator Barack Obama…..……………..
BLITZER: He graduated from Harvard Law School, was editor of the Law Review. He could have gone to a Wall Street firm and made a ton of money or some other law firm. But instead he decided to become an organizer in the South Side of Chicago. He tells that story.SCHNEIDER: He does. And it’s a place he never lived and he devoted himself to community service and now to national service. There was something, however, strange with this speech that could I point out. He talked about how to serve your community and your country. He talked about rebuilding places like New Orleans, about fighting poverty, energy, education. All the ways in which these young people could serve. But on Memorial Day weekend, I didn’t see anyplace in his prepared remarks — he hasn’t finished speaking — he didn’t say anything about military service. I thought that was strange on Memorial Day weekend.
BLITZER: Yes, you would think that on this Memorial Day weekend he’d be referring to that.
SCHNEIDER: He made one reference to the military and it’s interesting. He said, “at a time of war,” this is in his prepared remarks. “At a time of war, we need you to work for peace.” As far as I can tell in the prepared remarks, that’s the closest he comes to mentioning anything military.
Remember Obama’s refusal to wear a flag lapel?
REPORTER: “You don’t have the American flag pin on. Is that a fashion statement?”
OBAMA: “You know, the truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq War, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest.
“Instead, I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism.”
Obama loves his wife and wears a wedding ring, why not wear a little flag on your lapel if you love your country?
Recall Obama’s refusal to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem at a Democratic function? The other Democratic candidates, including Hillary Clinton, Bill Richardson and Joe Biden, all knew what to do (WARNING: terrible singing alert; turn down the volume)
What about Michelle Obama’s confession that her husband’s campaign is the first time she’d been proud of America her entire adult life?
Or Obama’s unpatriotic affiliation with his anti-American pastor Jeremiah Wright for 20 years?
This is officially a pattern.
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Reader Comments (50)
I noticed this, too, Amy. It struck me as a glaring omission - and one that is very telling in that Michelle Obama has been quoted as saying her husband will "take people out of their comfort zone." Apparently she didn't mean people at Wesleyan, which probably doesn't have a tremendously high rate of military accessions and who may have had quite a nasty reaction to being told to join up.
But then again, Obama made no mention of PO2 Monsoor receiving the Medal of Honor, even though that was on the same day as hearings for the war the Monsoor had died protecting his fellows in.
It's a pattern.
This video goes perfect with your post, Amy.
So in case you all missed it...
Click this out... “I Invented The Internet, Episode 1: The Audacity.”
In this video, Lorne Baxter explores the life of Barack Hussein Obama, Jeremiah Wright and the theology behind it.
Video is just over 13 minutes long, but well worth the watch!
Safe Memorial Day to all...
AubreyJ.........
Amy: Thank you so much for posting this! I'm done with political posts for the day, but I'll have something on this tomorrow.
Here's wishing you and your family all the best this Memorial Day Holiday. Thank you for all that you do!
What percent of college graduates leave college (esp. liberal arts) to pursue careers in the armed forces? How much thought did you give to joining the military when you graduated from college? We need help right here in America too.
Another question...is it customary to place your hand over your heart during the national anthem? I was always taught to do this during the Pledge of Allegiance. Is this something you always do?
Peachy, there are many opportunities for college grads to join the Military especially if they are members of the ROTC or the military helped pay for their college tuition.
I know many college grads who have willingly and with honor gone forward to serve our great country, even to fight and die in the war.
Here is why Obama did not mention military as a way of serving the country:
http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/2008/05/24/now-playing-clear-and-present-danger-enemy-from-within/
Many people in professional vocation preparation elect military service as a way of getting assistance in their advanced degrees. This includes doctors, nurses, dentists, lawyers, engineers, chaplains, and others. Many elect to join the Army Reserves or their states's National Guard. Some serve domestically in the Coast Guard. So Obama's omission of miltary service vocations, even at this liberal school, is quite telling on the day we remember our Fallen Brave.
Memorial day, is an opportunity for those in power in your country to glorify war and make it sound like War is a noble endeavour. Gone are the facts, the numbers that represent those who are killed, those who are left limbless, those who suffer mental breakdowns. All of these REAL ISSUES are replaced by this fictitious nonsense of war glorification. As if placing ones hand on their chest represents their true nature/goodwill towards humanity or country.
May you all "celebrate" memorial day, while Richard Perle and Dick cook up the next war so more of your people can go get killed and left limbless and along the way, kill thousands of civilians (ie collateral damage) in the process.
Just sickening really.
Knuckledragging wingnut blog.
Mavic, feel free to move to communist China or North Korea. You obviously have no clue when it comes to real cost of liberty.
Peachy, many do place their heart over their hearts when hearing the Star Spangled Banner. Certainly someone asking for the job of President should do so, particularly at a public function. Mavic, you have issues- you're a loser. Memorial Day is a day set aside to honor those who have fallen in the defnse of our nation. Show some damn gratitude for those who answered such a calling. What's sickening is your comments.
I am well aware that the opportunity to serve is on the table for many Americans. My question was what percent of college graduates leave college (esp. liberal arts) to pursue careers in the armed forces? A percent should be a number. Did you consider it?
It may indeed be Memoial Day weekend, but he was speaking at a College Graduation not at a memorial day celebration. I also did not hear him mention church service,or peace corp,or any number of other ways these young people could serve. It seems to me these pundants are doing what pundants do...they are lookig for something to critiize. This just happened to be what they hit on, if not that they would have found something else, otherwise who would watch their shows.
Mavic's comments are funny since he lives in Canada, and the Canadian government doesn't seem to want Americans in their country that feel like he does! Canada Deports Americans who Fled From Iraq Duty
War can be a noble endeavor. It stops facism, communism, dicators and terrorism from warring with the rest of the world. Hitler, Saddam, et al all wanted to increase their border and inflict their ideology on the broader region, ultiimately the world. It IS noble to stand up to international bullies who rape, pillage and plunder innocent people who simply want to live without communism, facism, dictatorships and terrorism.
While Mavic touts limbless and dead victims caused as a consequence of war, usually by the bad guys who were already doing that before the spotlight illuminated them, he has zero credibility until he preaches that gospel for all people, like the unborn, not just those who are unlucky enough to be victims of dictators and terrorists. He doesn't seem to mind a mother's freedom to have her child torn limb from limb or burned to death.
Actually, Obama did mention the Peace Corps in his speech. And it is notable that on Memorial Day, he made no reference to military service.
JTR: "It may indeed be Memorial Day weekend, but he was speaking at a College Graduation not at a memorial day celebration. I also did not hear him mention church service,or peace corp,or any number of other ways these young people could serve."
For Obama to omit mentioning the military as a possible career, or make any reference whatsoever to our men and women in harm's way on Memorial Day weekend, is a glaring omission, no matter how you spin it. This is just another of Obama's many gaffe's that will be used against him in the general election. He should know by now that everything he says or does not say is going to be analyzed, picked apart and critiqued. What does he expect as a presidential candidate? These omissions and gaffes are adding up and giving voters a glimpse into the real Obama. This voter does not like what he sees and is leaning towards McCain.
peachyfuture asked:
These studends Obama addressed are graduates. No one is suggesting anyone become a college drop out.
The entire officer corps is college educated. 1st Lieutenents through 5 Star Generals are all college educated. Many join the military right out of college. Their country needs their field of expertise, some here in the continental U.S. and some abroad.
Yes, it is customary to place your hand over your heart and take your hat off, during the national anthem as well as the pledge of allegiance.
I liked LOL's comments. Every blog needs at least one lib who can't defend a postion so "it" resorts to name-calling. Thank you!
The Peace Corps has nothing to do with the military and as I understand is plagued with rampant promiscuity and related problems.
Amy - you wrote "the entire officer corps is college educated." And that is true.
But what is also true is that the enlisted corps places an emphasis on education as well - and there are many enlisted members of the military who hold degrees and advanced degrees in addition to having high school diplomas at a higher rate than the general population. I think that is a tremendously important point that people need to see and understand.
The GI Bill is not the only vehicle for servicemembers to forward their education, either. Most colleges grant credit hours for military advancement classes, and the military reimburses for courses taken while on active duty.
It's quite the myth (uttered famously by Sen. John Kerry) that military members are not educated and have no other options. Most military members feel the call to serve and be a part of something bigger than themselves - and that doesn't change because of college.
Usually politicians point to the fact that it is the smaller and less prestigious schools that boast higher rates of accession into the military and say, "It's because they have no other option and would starve if they didn't join the military!"
I look at it differently - I see the students coming out of Ivy League and privileged schools like Wesleyan who don't join the military and I think, "Their parents truly failed them for not instilling the values of service in their children."
airforcewife, I think you left out an important point- that on average, the members of the military have a higher level of education than the American public. In short, the typical enlisted serviceperson has obtained a higher level of education than the typical American citizen. It's a point John Kerry failed to take the time to know, and it led to his ridiculous comment.
If all it takes to be patriotic is speak highly of Republican leaders, wear a flag pin, and beleive that every action this country takes against another country is justified because we need to support our troops, that is an empty patriotism indeed,
It is written in the Declaration of Independence that we, as a people, have a right and a responsibility to stand up and hold out government accountable ... for the sake of the country we love.
Why haven't any of you pointed out the today, while trying to honor the troops that have fallen in the defense of this country, our president said that he was proud that they had been killed.
He was "proud of their sacrifice". I am grateful of their sacrifice, but I am in no way proud that we had to send our young men and women to die. I am pround of the soldier, not thier death.
Our president, apparently, is proud of the fact that he sent this brave people to die in a foreign land.
He didn't say that he was proud that they were dead. He (as can we all) can certainly be proud of the fact that there are people willing to do what's necesary so that people like you can continue to say such moronic things without concern for repercussion. And, the Declaration also is critical of the King's cutting off trade with the rest of the world and for erecting a multitude of new offices and sending out swarms of officers to harass the people and eat away at their sustenance. If we were to hold our officials to the standards set forth in the Declaration, we could lock up most of the Democratic caucus in Congress for violating the principles listed.
As a Veteran, I am very troubled by Sen. Obama's lack of respect for our military. I also want to share an article that I have tried to share on RCP, but it was blocked.
The Media, Sen. Obama And He Who Must Not Be Named.
May 24, 2008 by zachjonesishome
Larry Sinclair’s allegations of gay sex and drug use in 1999 with Sen. Obama – Why hasn’t the media reported this story?
This story has been percolating on the internet for a few months now and more people are starting to take notice. It appears to have taken on a life of its own with a sort of trench warfare, a cat and mouse game, developing which has been brutal in many instances. As of this morning, there have been around 750,000 visits to Larry Sinclair’s site and the numbers are increasing by 10 to 20 thousand per day.[i] There’s a substantial number of committed people who believe Mr. Sinclair’s story completely, those who just want the truth no matter what it turns out to be, a few who are trying to get their candidate elected and those who are fighting for Mr. Sinclair’s right to be heard on one side trying to bring these allegations to public’s awareness. Then there’s the opposition who find Mr. Sinclair’s allegations slanderous, those who support Sen. Obama and are trying to insulate him, paid campaign staff (apparently) and a few who just seem to enjoy bullying.[ii] The tactics in trying to keep this story from going public have been a story in and of themselves. (There have been attacks, insults, lurking, impersonation, threats, and disclosures of identities.) But the big question is: Where is the media and why hasn’t it reported these allegations?
In seems that ALL are choosing to be on the sidelines, lurking, observing, trying hide their presence on the blogs, waiting for someone to present additional tangible evidence, worrying about protecting their reputations and credibility, cruising the penumbra of the story ready to pounce when it fits their criteria or when the train leaves the station.[iii] To many of Mr. Sinclair’s supporters they must seem like cowards. From responses that I’ve received from editors, it is clear that everyone knows about this story – the press, the candidates, the candidates’ staff, everyone but the general public.
This election season, it’s obvious to most that much of the main street media has developed some type of emotional attachment to Sen. Obama. It has the appearance of a high school crush. They’ve become very protective of the Senator and when anyone, in the comment sections of one of their stories, dares to ask questions about Mr. Sinclair’s allegations they do whatever they can to quash the attempt. They clearly have forgotten their responsibilities to the news process and to the rights of free speech. Through the moderation process most of the stories never see the light of day. The ones that do find a way onto the comment section are remove as quickly as possible. It doesn’t matter how nasty the other comments responding to the news article might be, if a post contains the words that must not be spoken are named – the comment is gone. The media has determined that no one can utter the Senator’s middle name without reprisal and absolutely no one can utter the words Larry Sinclair. I firmly believe that had Mr. Sinclair’s allegations been about either Sen. Clinton or Sen. McCain, the media would be running advertisements telling us when we could hear the latest news, how kindergarteners feel about it, and on, and on, and on.
I believe that the remaining media that have not fallen for the Senator are scared to death to have even a remote possibly that the charges might be false and have the star struck newsmen and women turn their pens toward them. I seem to remember a group of Lacrosse players at Duke who ran into the main stream media when they were not infatuated. They ran into a media that convicted them in the press without a second thought. After that incident, the media at large took no responsibility for its role whatsoever. In this instance, Mr. Sinclair is not asking for the media to convict Sen. Obama. What needs to happen is for someone in the media to have the courage to simply listen to Mr. Sinclair’s allegations, talk to him, look at the allegations, turn them upside down, inside out, try to verify facts, try to disprove them and do what the press that reports news is supposed to do. I don’t believe it is their role to try to shape the news so it conforms to their own narrative. I don’t believe they are supposed to ask for comments relating to articles and then only allow the ones that don’t include the forbidden words – Larry Sinclair.
Therefore, Mr. Newsman and Ms. Newswoman – step up.
You're kind of cute, but your politics are pretty simplistic. The flag pin? Come ON.
"Mavic, feel free to move to communist China or North Korea. You obviously have no clue when it comes to real cost of liberty. "
Is this the standard that military members like you set for your colleagues Johnny? You just tell people that disagree with your views to move elsewhere? If you really think about it Johnny your country is responsible for many of the same "human rights" violations that you might attribute to the countries you mentioned.
Amy I think your comments are generally even more laughable as evidenced by your consistent oversimplification of facts. Do you always try to think in such simplistic terms, or do you get a kick out of being really naive? The Canadian government didn't approve of the war in Iraq nor did it (officially) send any troops. That has nothing to do with the fact that the courts decided that these individuals had to be sent back. It has nothing to do with Canada's position on your War Of Terror.
"If all it takes to be patriotic is speak highly of Republican leaders, wear a flag pin, and beleive that every action this country takes against another country is justified because we need to support our troops, that is an empty patriotism indeed. "
Poignant statement and it goes to show that empty pots are easily swayed by false pretenses of "patriotism". It doesn't matter that Haliburton and other war-profiteers are raking in billions of dollars at the expense of the lives of millions of civilians as well as soldiers. NOne of these things matter, because in the end its all about "showing support for the troops".
One must give credit to the propaganda machine of American elites and its superb efforts at making sheep out of the average citizen. All evidence that America is well on its way to paving the road towards fascism. Enjoy it.
Mavic, your comments are absurd and ridiculous. You do not help anyone by making them you really do fuel and enforce people to think that the war is good. I understand you are from Canada? You just like every other country... Wouldn't be crap if it was not for us.
What does Canada make (besides lumber and bad beer well Molson is not to bad everything else sucks)?
How is your job market?
How is that socialism working for you up there?
You are supposed to be conservationists or "green" leaders, but why have you increased the amount of pollution you produce rather than decreasing it?
Cananda = JOKE!!!
Oh yeah, I forgot you have hockey.... Sorry!
Now for the rest of you, I may make comments on here about the war(only directed toward the government), etc... BUT NOBODY TALKS ABOUT MY COUNTRY AND ESPECIALLY FROM A CRAPHOLE OF INFESTATION LIKE CANADA!!!
Suck on that one, eh.... Haha!!
I hate Canadians! So arrogant about how right they think they are when most of them have nothing............. Just about riding the line of becoming a third world country with all that GREAT HEALTHCARE, SOCIALISM, and just about anything else their government steals from them....
As for this issue, I believe this is twisted... Amy, maybe it has become "customary" for some people to do it during the National Anthem but it was never taught that way... The only time that was ever brought to the table was for the Pledg of Allegiance. That is a fact, the rest is a personal belief. Not saying he should not do it but it is not a point to be made because somebody did not act the way you wanted them to...
It is just like when they started to play "God Bless America" at the baseball stadiums (which has stopped this year). Half the people would hold their hand over their heart... Why I don't know especially being that it is not a national song or whatever. I think they were more confused or just felt inspired... Anyway, you are going to need a better point than that... Cheap shot by all...
Except Canada boy... He is just CRAP!! Have a great day eh...
When liberals and conservatives attack each other, its ugly. When liberals attack each other, its a trainwreck.
Johnny, again... THE NAME CALLING IS YOUR SIMPLETON WAY OF DEALING WITH THINGS........ My reply was not "liberal" or "conservative" in nature...
In other words, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH is all you are saying except for the MINORITY and I mean MINORITY of people that think the way you do... The vast majority of AMERICANS do not think that way because we do not like to label each other... We are Americans and we have different viewpoints. It is not about LABELING people! The last time we did that we had places where types of people could not go....
But if that is the way you want it... Don't forget, the "Blue" states or a.k.a. the "liberal" states (really the United States since the socalled "conservatives" were traitors...) won that battle and is the reason we still have the United States of America!! Not the DIVIDED STATES OF AMERICA as you may wish...
STL if you stop foaming at the mouth for a second you might actually learn something. You know like opening books, verifying information, learning etc? Did they teach you that sort of critical thinking at school? Clearly not.
Anyways, if you actually take a look at the statistics, the unemployment rate in Canada is at its lowest in 30 years as of last October. Perhaps you may think that a well-performing economy is the only barometer of a decent nation, but I doubt most intelligent people consider that as the main factor in assessing the merits of a country. IN any case even the Canadian economy has been recently outperforming its American counterparts.
If you are going to try and argue that Canada's healthcare is somehow in dismal shape you might want to assess your healthcare first. Even that little impoverished country you Americans love to hate (Cuba), has outperformed the AMerican healthcare system.
As of 1997 US healthcare ranked 37th in overall health care performance. Says a lot about the efficiency of the richest country in the world doens't it STL. Anything else?
By the way, STL, you might want to stay on topic and perhaps consider consulting the local psychiatrist for a bottle of ritalin or another applicable suppressant. Clearly you need it.
Chaz, the flag pin in and of itself is insignificant, but when you piece it together with the other pieces in Obama's puzzle of patriotism there is a pattern.
Even so, if you look at the ABC article I cited, the journalist thought Obama's answer about not wearing a flag was odd. Essentially, he wears his flag on his heart, like his religion. The only thing he seems to wear on his sleeve is his pro-choice and anti-war positions, among other political things.
Mavic, healthcare?? Are you serious?? I know people in canada like to think theirs is better... But if so, why do all your fellow countrymen that want GOOD healthcare and can AFFORD it... Come to that HORRIBLE(as you like to think) country of mine the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA??
As a person in the insurance industry along with a degree and several designations in the industry (thank you very much)... I think I know a littel bit about how GOOD our healthcare is... All people including our own that complain about really have no clue what they are talking about. We have the BEST healthcare in the world as evidenced by the number of people from other countries that come here for medical care rather than their own. Even if it is free. It is available to everyone and yes you have to pay for it... It is not a right of a citizen and our government does not take our money for it like other countries such as Canada, England, etc... So come again, eh?
Everything else you have stated is RUBBISH... We AMERICANS know better and are not controlled by our government as much as you like to think so... Plus we are not subject to censorship by our government (like Canada) so we can get our information from wherever we please...
RUBBISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But as I have stated before... Not an Obama supporter but I do think he is getting a bum deal but that is the way politics is... Take a decent guy and tear him down if he is not on his guard!
We vote here (as evidenced by Amy's comment above) on things like abortion... Which should be one of the last things you should consider because it has nothing to do with a President and running the Federal Government... That is a State issue if they even want to consider it. That is the way our government was designed and the way it should be. So if you don't like it, you can move.......................
All they do is take cheap misguided shots all day long from both sides of the fence. Neither party is innocent and for an individual citizen of this country that is not compensated by the government or parties, a politician, etc... to consider themselves a "diehard" member of either party is just plain old silly. They will never do anything for you (99.999% of the time) unless you are part of the machine. So once again, WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether it is Fox News talking points, MSNBC talking points, CNN talking points, etc... Liberal or Conservative. You have to consider all points and be willing to support the right person, for the right job, at the right time no matter who they are affiliated with... It is really that easy...
REally STL? So you're an expert on healthcare huh? I suppose you should tell the folks at central intelligence what you think then? Clearly they aren't on the same page as you when it comes to the quality of your healthcare.
"The CIA World Factbook ranked the United States 41st in the world for lowest infant mortality rate[13] and 45th for highest total life expectancy.[14] A recent study found that between 1997 and 2003 "
Some astounding statistics for the richest country in the world.
The WHO ranks the United States 37th in overall quality of healthcare. mmmmm yeehhh.
Would you like to contribute with any facts STL? I suggest you not make too many off hand remarks about Canadian politics/economics etc, unless you're willing to substantiate your claims with FACTS.
Part of the reason that the United States ranks lower in infant mortality than other nations is that the United States counts a baby as born alive even if it's heart is beating but it is never able to take a breath. Most other countries do not.
Another reason the United States has a higher infant mortality is because our medical field is overly successful - babies are born with signs of life at far earlier ages than in many other countries, where the loss of a child at that stage of gestation would be considered a miscarriage and not a live (albeit far premature) birth.
If you are going to throw around birth statistics without taking that into account, you are willfully ignoring facts just to make yourself feel superior.
or higher in infant mortality, depending on how you are referencing the list...
airforcewife,
The key word here is "part" of the reason. It still doesnt' explain why it ranks 41st. Secondly do you have any anomalies to explain why life-expectancy in the United States is 45th? Or perhaps why it ranks 37th in overall health care performance for example?
A country with this much wealth should be overwhelmly above the rest of the world in aspects such as health care. Clearly something is wrong somewhere, but I suppose part of being American is to be in a perpetual state of denial.
Shhhh dont tell anyone but I have this secret ingenious idea. how about throwing some of that TRILLION DOLLARS your dear leader and his cronies threw away with bombs and use it for something say a bit more productive? Hold on a second, that sounds waayyy too rational and humane. I am sorry.
Mavic you are way off and maybe you honestly don't know it eh?? So that being said... What MORON uses the CIA to state facts about an industry they know little about???????????? Are you really serious??? Why don't you ask a medical expert? Or go to one of their sites to go look up their statistics if that is what makes you feel better... Again, no statistics needed... The only FACT that matters is that your fellow countrymen, who can afford it of course, come here to ge their healthcare because the socialized plan of Canada FLAT OUT SUCKS!!
P.S.- Never said I was an expert simply stated that I work in the insurance industry and sell and advise health products. Which means yes I know a lot about our healthcare system and how it works. The only issue we have is containing the cost of our insurance. That is the only real issue. Better luck next time Mr. Canuck!
By the way oh smarty pants canadian... The World Health Organization ranked the US 37th and canada 30th. There you go but what you are to ignorant to look into is how they determined it... The U.S. spends the most in the world on healthcare and therefore has the best facilities, doctors(Funny how all the foreigners come here to go to our schools to become doctors but yet we have such a bad system...), etc... Still meaning we are the best. They HEAVILY WEIGHTED socialized medicine because they believe that the failure to provide for the poor is seen as a major failure of a healthcare system... Boo Hoo! The poor are taken care of here through Medicare. So I believe they are addressing more of the lower middle class who may not have insurance through their work, may not be able to afford it on their own (women are very expensive), or are uninsurable as an individual...
So Canuck, here is how it works... Health insurance 101...
Step 1 - If you can afford it, you have the best healthcare in the world. Just like myself and my 20 employees I pay for idiot. Top of the line Cadillac plan if you will with no maximums and no deductibles. Other employers may choose as a cost savings to buy plans with higher deductibles or coinsurance to minimize the increase you incur every year. Oh and by the way, if you are an employer like me who has a health plan(kind of necessary in this country to stay competitive and attract quality employees...), IT IS MANDATORY THAT IT HAS TO BE OFFERED TO ALL EMPLOYEES.
Step 2 - If you do not have it through your work, You must buy it individually. This is where it gets sticky because the company indivisdually underwrites you. So you can have a chance of being declined or take up to a 50% increase in rate (which may make it unaffordable). Plus there is a HUGE variety of products you can buy such as a PPO, POS(what most buy these days), HSA's(great idea), Major Medical(try to stay away from), etc... Did not list any other types because the rest are pretty much ripoffs.
Step 3 - This is where it is really sticky and why they rank us as the 37th healthcare system in the world... For those who can't afford or who are not provided health coverage by an employer, they have medicare as long as they meet the income level requirements. If they do not, then they are stuck without coverage unless it is an emergency.
Of which, 12 million people in the U.S. that are counted in this statistic and help us to be called the 37th ranked healthcare SYSTEM(pay attention to that word) are ILLEGAL ALIENS... In addition to the variety of people who simply can't afford or don't pursue getting coverage in a conventional manner...
So again, the question YOU need to UNDERSTAND is HOW THEY JUSTIFIED MAKING THAT DECISION... The only reason we were ranked low for who we are is because we DO NOT TAX THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF INDIVIDUALS SO WE CAN OFFER THE SAME PLAN TO EVERYONE. That is it and evrything else is simply FALSE. We believe in a free market (whether right or wrong) but we are nothing like what you probably saw in the movie Sicko by Mr. Moore. What a freaking CROCK!!! We are guilty of only not making the same available to everyone... So, you can sight statistics all you want but anyone with even the LAMEST of college degrees knows how statistics/polls/anything to do with numbers can be manipulated. With something like this it is about how it was justified.
You wanted facts, professional opinion, or whatever... Maybe if any of you feel the same way as our uninformed neighbor to the north Mavic... Maybe you learned something today. Questions anyone??? Stupid skewed statistics anyone?
By the way Mavic, I am with you on the war spending and as many in our country are... The MAJORITY of us are and it is a MAJOR majority around 70% so we are not all drinking the government's Kool Aid. Most of them are just blind, do not want to accept the truth, or are trying to justify the whole situation with EVER CHANGING reasons such as Mr. Baxter Greene. He is so caught up he is bigger and fatter than the Kool Aid man from the commercials!!! Heck, even the pampous and arrogant Bill O'Reilly(unbiased my butt) stated on his radio show TODAY that Saddam could have been contained & put in his place in a much better way without the loss of life and treasure that any country has endured.
So there you have it. Peace Canuck
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I'd love for you two to continue on the debate about health care... if you knew how to do it in a more positive manner. All comments that violate my ROE will be deleted.
You just don't get it to do you? You assume that the only barometer of "Good health care" is based on the facilities and equipment in abundance, where as people with half a brain would realise that it is a tad bit more complicated than you would like to believe. The quality and access to care for the average citizen is much more important than whatever hitech facilities one must possess. Whats the point of having those facilities when only a select few are privy their usage?
Our hospitals are not flooded with Americans in need of healthcare because Americans have to pay when they come to CANADA. Get it? And who told you that an immigrant doesnt' contribute in Canada? Just because a few immigrants slip through the cracks and abuse the system that doesn't indicate a general dysfunction of all "immigrants". Infact if it wasn't for immigrants both of our countries would be in the poop shooter, and especially yours. Take a look at the % of doctors, and hi-tech workers that literally run your economy. And you think immigrants are a problem?
Haha and you even have the gall to bring up education systems now?! i hate break it you , but thats even worse than your healthcare if you really want to digress in that direction. Make my day.
Mavic, again you skirt the issue... Once again, you have no clue and yes the FACT is that FACILITIES dictate the quality of a healthcare system and where you can get the BEST POSSIBLE CARE... If you can't understand that then you are not even worthy of continuing a debate... Your Anti-Americanism is BLINDING YOU WITH IGNORANCE!!!!!!!
It is hard to be number 1 because everybody else wants to bring you down like this moron... Why don't you come down here and get some good QUALITY HEALTHCARE WHENEVER YOU WANT?? Come try it out? If you can afford it... Or maybe you want to get healthcare in India or somewhere close since we are the worst... LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good old Canadiens and their desire to be the top dog in North America... Never stops! Maybe we should just take them over... Now that would be fun! Gee I wonder how EASY that would be??? But why? We have nothing to gain because withou us they would be NOTHING...
This is over and education?? Are you kidding me?? We won't even allow a doctor from a Canadien school practice here... We set the bar and you know it and you HATE it!!! Burns your beady little eyes doesn't it?? WHy don't you come over here and take a look at any of our Universities and see just how many NON-NATIONAL students there are? Come on idiot or will you post another silly statistic based on a view of how it works for a SOCIALIST country such as canada...
That is why your argument is MUTE!!! You don't understand a FREE MARKET ECONOMY AND WHAT IT IS LIKE TO LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY... YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND AND JUST KNOW HOW TO BE A BOTTOM FEEDER. Or your a just a big idea tree hugging hippy.
Ciao canucker
Have a good day eh....
Why do you canucks hate us so much?? JUst curious? I mean we let your hockey players come down here and pay them way to much... But that helps your economy so it should be a good thing, eh?
STL,
I'm an American who has seen too much of the suffering due to our less than desirable health care system. It doesn't work for middle/low income individuals. It doesn't work for the typical immigrant, it certainly doesn't work for the chronically ill, the elderly or our veterans.
Insurance is a joke. Health Insurance is the 3nd biggest -scam- system in America.
Few people from other countries come here for health care, where did you come up with that fact??
Our working class go to other countries more and more from simple cosmetic procedures to hip replacement and transplant surgeries. Do you need sources for that statemenet, try google there are plenty.
" FACILITIES dictate the quality of a healthcare system and where you can get the BEST POSSIBLE CARE "
Who get's that best possible care?
The small percent who can afford it.
"The Facilities dictate the quality of the healthcare system" or do the the facilities dictate where and on who the money for health are is being spent?
How does a family with a few kids, and one parent working a blue collar job pay for the best cancer treatment in the best facilities for a ill spouse or elderly parent? They don't, they die in a county hospital.
Are you making sense to yourself because you sure aren't to me and probably every reasonable person who comes across this page.
It's a bias and unfair system designed for a select group of people, not the majority of people.
Just like a lot of big "systems" in America, it's pushing us closer to a two class nation. And I have news for you, you probably won't be in the upper class because you only work for the system, you don't own it.
Trust me, We, the people, would much rather have accessible affordable health care than state of the art facilities, that are few and far between in the large scheme of human need.
County hospitals are completely inferior in all aspects that you would expect when seeking medical help, God forbid you actually have an emergency and need a quick response by an adequate medical team. It's not there.
Military Veteran hospitals are the absolute worst places to get health care, digusting with staph bacteria outbreaks, understaffed and outdated, and this is how our government honors and takes care of the military..Why don't the men and women who serve our country get fully staffed (rather than staph), state of the art hosptials with superior care and follow up?
Did you know that the leading reason for personal bankruptcy in the US is unpaid medical bills?
No, Amercica does not have a successful medical care system for everyone. (and BTW our public education is failing at a ridiculous rate, do you live in the clouds?)
America is in a huge struggle to stay on top economically, adjusting the health care system would be a huge step forward in regaining some stability for families who are currently unable to support the economy.
Free market economy? Again ,the term free market is something that is class specific. we have very unbalanced prices for goods, services, housing, private education and healthcare, in contrast to how little the average income is, and this is all controlled by government and how they limit the options to the middle/lower class. Free market means if you can afford the freedom.
hmmmm.. think before you jump. Your last post was bordering on belligerent and those uneducated (at the least unreasearched) statements are making you appear foolish, which I know you are not.
On topic-- Just my own personal thoughts about Obama's Memorial day speech, perhaps his idea of "change" in a new direction away from the war and military advancement as a country has something to do with why he neglected to mention our people who are and have served in the military and why he seems to lack appropriate patriotism.
Giving attention to the intention of Memorial Day and supporting certain facets of patriotism encourages the idea that our current war is honorable when clearly Obama does not believe that it is. I would also refuse to take part in something that I do not believe in or would not want as a representation of me if I am trying to make an impression.
I believe it is right to honor the people who sacrifice for our freedoms and way of life, I come from a military family, so don't misunderstand my statement on the subject of Obama's reasoning as my personal feelings on this subject.
I do however waiver in my love of this nation as I learn more and more truths.
I just want to clarify that I am in no way blaming the staff in the VA hospitals and county hospitals for the conditions. I know you do the best you can with your resources.