Obama Wonders Why Soldiers Are Always Watching Fox News
Thursday, July 24, 2008 at 10:02AM On Barack Obama’s presidential trip to the Middle East and Europe, he noticed the soldiers he met in Kuwait, Iraq and Afghanistan always had Fox News on. He wondered aloud to his media entourage, is the White House and Armed Forces Network in cahoots with Fox News?
Obama: (Fox News correspondent) Garrett’s on there all the time. How is it that Fox News has such the hook-up with Armed Forces television? Is that the Commander-in-Chief’s choice?
First of all, it’s Armed Forces Network, not television. Obama was making light of an important observation.
I’m an Army wife stationed overseas with my soldier for the first time. Here in Korea our cable is provided by Armed Forces Network. We get Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, BBC, NPR, and CBS. Let me tell you why, Senator Obama, Fox News is always on in the combat zone.
Troops are watching Fox News because THEY WANT TO. They appreciate the pro-troop reporting and balanced political news. When my husband served in Iraq in 2003-04 and 2008, the troops of the 82nd Airborne Division et al despised Christiane Amanpour and the BBC for their slanted, anti-war biased reporting. Fox News is at least fair and balanced.
So wonder no more, senator. Fox News is a troop favorite for a reason and it has nothing to do with sanctioning from the White House. Or are you saying the troops are yes-men?
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Reader Comments (52)
Mr. Obama is not the type of man who should lead a group of soldiers. Egomaniacs get their own men or wormen killed for no good reason.
so this is the only fact he discovered on trip?
Or are you saying the troops are yes-men?
Call me crazy, but isn't this the very essence of a solider? Aren't they supposed to be "yes-men", following orders without question?
And I'm glad to hear Fox is fair and balanced. Could you please define for me what "balanced" means in this context please?
Thx.
When my husband was in Afghanistan, the DFAC played a medley of different talking heads. Noticeably missing was anyone from FOX. Prime featured during eating time was Olbermann. My husband blames his 20 pound weight loss (and he's a fit guy normally, but came home looking like a scarecrow) on that single factor.
The guys there badgered and badgered and begged and pleaded to find out what the issue was, it turns out that someone had made a decision to "be fair and inclusive" so that everyone would be represented in choice of programming during dining hours.
There were more complaints about the programming than about the food. That's saying something.
All other tvs were turned to FOX.
Oh, I see. "Fair" means pro-war, and "unfair" means anti-war. Got it.
Punchy, no, the essence of every soldier is to obey the orders of the commander in chief. They have no obligation to suck up to him or agree with him.
Here in Korea, there are more suport troops than antying else. I've heard lots of troops here say they support Obama.
Combat troops are mostly white. The troops in Afghanistan and Iraq tend to support the current mission more than not. It really comes down to your personal morality and the type of soldief you are.
None of our friends, who are instrumental in the war on terror, support Obama.
In Korea on Armed Forces Network we get lots of PSA telling soldies they have the right and obligation to speak up and that our right is to that of freedom of speech. No, soldiers are not to follow orders "without question". Questioning is welcomed.
Balanced just means giving both sides of the issue.
Punchy,
Surely Fox has more diverse views then certain other cable channels?
Call me crazy, but isn't this the very essence of a solider? Aren't they supposed to be "yes-men", following orders without question?
And I'm glad to hear Fox is fair and balanced. Could you please define for me what "balanced" means in this context please?
Thx.
Oh, I see. "Fair" means pro-war, and "unfair" means anti-war. Got it. Punchy
Nice attempt at insulting our troops. Current US military doctrine is to push information all the way down so that soldiers can make good decisions. No soldier has to follow unlawful orders. By the way, Punchy we know that you dislike FOXNEWS, could you please enlighten us with a news channel or network that is "fair" in you eyes???
In my experience, folks who accuse Fox News as not being "fair and balanced" don't actually watch Fox News to form their own opinion. Is Sean Hannity presenting a balanced view? No. Does Hannity and Colmes? yes. How about Greta Van Susteren? Not liberal enough for you? O'Reilly gives both sidea a hard time. The news reporting is pretty much down the center while the commentary is shaded to the right but provides balance via guests and contributers like Juan Williams and Mara Liasson.
The reason Fox News appears to not be ballanced from some vantage points is because the fulcrum is shifted so far left in their world view.
So he called it Armed Forces TV instead of Network, like you've never called something the wrong name before? But I digress. I used to watch Fox, but they leaned too far right. I used to watch CNN, but they leaned too far left. The solution: Watch equal amounts of neither and call it a day.
The media has never been and never will be completely fair. From the early stages of this country there were media outlets drumming up support for their own causes. They're humans and they have believes. I don't know many journalists who can leave their believes at home while working. Russert is one, but after that the list gets real small and damn near nonexistent.
I hit the ceiling this morning when I heard this. Awake 30 minutes and already spitting mad. When the SGM(r) was in Afghanistan, all the tvs he encountered were on Fox - including the mess hall.
Oh did you hear that one of the MSN reporters asked Obama which channel he was going to pick when he became president? That made it all for me - the stupid reporters (and probably Obama) believe that GW Bush dictated the television stations watched in a war zone.
... this man is running for the highest office in the land and isn't smart enough to know that is not something dictated by the white house?
But then again, this is the man (cough cough) that stood up in Germany and preached to the masses in ... gasp English! What happened to Americans needing to learn a second language?
(snort ... back to work now)
Nice attempt at insulting our troops.
Yes, I insulted the troops by assuming their job was to follow orders. To say "yes sir" and complete the task at hand (isn't this a 'yes-man'?).
I had no idea it was insulting to assume sodiers obeyed orders from their commanders.
And this:
Surely Fox has more diverse views then certain other cable channels?
Just got me in trouble. I just laughed so hard and so loud that my peers are staring at me. Let's just say we differ on this opinion. A lot! ;)
please spell correctly...allowed and aloud....big difference!
Just wait we are going to hear from the MSM that the White House is making the armed forces watch Fox News and there will be a lot of garbage being flung around. Just one more thing to blame President Bush or rather the White House.
Jo, you cracked me up about Obama speaking in "English" while addressing the Germans, good one.
It makes me wonder if Obama was Persident (God help us) he would change the news for the troops to WHAT he THINKS they shourld hear....
We live in a FREE country last I looked Obama-changa-rama....
Fox news has a great respect for the troops and I'm sure that's why they have it on!!
He clearly said it in jest. Plenty of what he says is troublesome and should be scrutinized, but it was blatantly obvious he was joking here.
....and anyone who says Juan Williams provides a counter-point to Sean Hannity et al hasn't the faintest idea of what the word "balanced" is supposed to mean.
Obama doesn't care about the troops. People, for him, are just props for his media show.
We need someone who understands war and can lead us to victory in Iraq. That person is not Obama.
"'Fair and balanced' means we publish Obama's article, but not McCain's." -- NY Times
"'Fair and balanced' means we only talk to people we agree with, and who agree with our point of view." --Keith Olberman
"'Fair and balanced' means we get a thrill running up our leg when we shill for Obama. With McCain, not so much." --Chris Matthews
"'Fair and balanced' means if we can't find evidence to support our stories, we create the evidence." --Dan Rather
"'Fair and balanced' means we only want to hear news that supports our beliefs and presuppositions." --The American Left
"'Fair and balanced' means we control what people can hear on the radio." --Nancy Pelosi and the Democrat Party.
"'Fair and balanced' means we give both sides an opportunity to express their views." --Fox News
I watch Fox quite a bit, and often disagree with what I hear. Bill O'Reilly is wrong about half the time, but I've seen him give organizations like Code Pink plenty of air time, and he treats them politely, in spite of what you might have heard. I saw him interview Whoopie Goldberg and treat her with great respect.
Fox isn't perfect, but they are definitely more fair and balanced than any other newtwork out there.
"Fair and Balanced" means - When I'm Commander in Chief, I'll put a stop to this Fox News nonsense.
That was the point of his question - He will want to control all media just as he now controls all media access to himself. The MSM puts stuff up that The Obama carefully crafts for them. Not real interviews and photos ..... just photo op propaganda.
If The Obama gave a flip about American soldiers, he would not have blown them off in Germany. He feels it's perfectly "appropriate" to give a President's speech to almost a quarter of a million Germans (all waving those identical American flags) but "inappropriate" to visit wounded soldiers in Germany. Who would have ever guessed that so many Germans loved America so much to have an American flag handy for this rock concert?
Will OMBC, OCBS, OABC, OCNN or ONYT report that? Very unlikely.
Punch,
You really think MSNBC is more diverse then Fox. I know CNN has Dobbs who has his own thing, . I am not comparing FOX to Bloomberg or Headline news for that matter, but come on.
None of the cable news stations are fair nor balanced. MSNBC might as well have David Axelrod as their political news director, and there's a reason CNN was dubbed the Clinton News Network. But don't pretend that Fox is really what their slogan says they are just because they give token airtime once in a while to the left. I watch O'Reilly, and to say he respects those he disagrees with is blatantly false. He's rude, insulting, and obnoxious, he's disingenuous in his commentary and labels anyone who disagrees with him as radical or extreme. Olberman on MSNBC isn't any better, he just delivers his shows with more humor so it has a softer touch, but it's just as biased. The only thing I'll give him over O'Reilly is that at least he doesn't pretend to be unbiased, he's up front about where his loyalties lie. And the folks on talk radio are no better.
I don't think people would have such a problem with Fox News if they didn't claim to be fair & balanced in their slogan. When Murdoch started Fox News he specifically said it was to counter-balance what he saw as a left-leaning bias in TV news.
"Yes, I insulted the troops by assuming their job was to follow orders. To say "yes sir" and complete the task at hand (isn't this a 'yes-man'?)."
No, that is not a "yes man" A "yes man" is a suck-up who agrees with a superior vocally, whether he really does or not, for the sole purpose of unearned personal aggrandizement. That was the reason your original comment was rightly seen as an insult. Why do I say that? Because you knew damn well what you were saying.
What bothers you followers of He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Middle-Named is that you think you can spew these ham-fisted insults (you really aren't all that clever). Why do you the think the Dems wanted the ballots of deployed servicemen and women thrown out in 2000.
In closing Kipling said it best:
...It's Tommy this and Tommy that and anything you pleast
But Tommy ain't no bloomin' fool. You bet that Tommy sees"
That's what has the Obamessiah worried.
It shows to me that he doesn't obviously have a lot of understanding into what goes on over there with the troops.
Speaking of whose watching and listening to what, over 200,000 Germans turned out to hear Obama speak. That despite the Bush Administration barring US Foreign Service workers from attending ... Ahhhh, more f(R)ee-speech zones, from "W"
McCain from Schmidt's German Sausage Haus, in Columbia said he'd like to give a speech in Germany "2".
Snerd
It's called freedom of choice! That's part of what we soldiers fight for each and every day. While FOX is not by any means perfect, I watch them over any other because they are not leaning (more like fallen) to the left!
Punchy, "fair" means fair. When my husband was in Iraq, Christiane Amanpour and BBC reporters in particular were despised by military leaders anda rank and file soldiers because they disregarded the real facts on teh ground in favor or getting sensational politically leading stories. They had an agenda. They were biased and didn't give the troops the benefit of the doubt. Some soldiers would get red in the face in the FOBs watching BCC and CNN newscasts because they were so biased. Soldiers starting liking Fox News because their embeds were fairer (and apparently not sleeping around like CBS correspondants) and werent' there to critique every aspect of what soldiers did wrong or how bad the war was, but rather to get the actual story.
The other networks did this to themselves.
And by the way, remember last year when none of the 10 or so Democratic presidential hopefuls would talk to Fox News? Not Obama, Hillary, Edwards, Biden... they were following the marching orders of the Daily Kos and MoveOn.Org. They helped create partisanism in the media.
Call me crazy, but isn't this the very essence of a solider? Aren't they supposed to be "yes-men", "following orders without question?"
Yes, I insulted the troops by assuming their job was to follow orders. To say "yes sir" and complete the task at hand (isn't this a 'yes-man'?). Punchy
Of course you meant to insult the troops. Especialy within context the of this post. It's why you added the soldiers are supposed follow orders without question. And that is why I rebutted you and said they don't have to follow unlawful orders: such as TORTURE, pillaging and murder of innocent civilians. But you obviously believe that todays American soldiers are and should be "yes-men". You don't have to hide your disdain for the US military, we all know that's how you feel about them. MIght as well be open about it.
CNN has had a virtual monopoly when it comes to the Armed Forces Network. My father in-law and cousin reminded how pissed off they would get listening to the BIASED CNN reporting from the first Gulf War. Truthfully, FOXNEWS wasn't really an alternative back then, but it seems the troops see it as an alternative now to the dismay of the Obama. Americans servicemen are great at many things; defeating the enemy, professionalism, humanitarian aid and bitching. It's probably why they are watching FOXNEWS instead of lthe left biased CNN.
Speaking of whose watching and listening to what, over 200,000 Germans turned out to hear Obama speak. That despite the Bush Administration barring US Foreign Service workers from attending ... Ahhhh, more f(R)ee-speech zones, from "W"
McCain from Schmidt's German Sausage Haus, in Columbia said he'd like to give a speech in Germany "2".
Snerd
Hurray, the Obama has the German vote locked up. The crowd was sure FIRED up, noooot. Maybe, they were too tired out rockin out with Reamonn and The German Reggeasänger Patrice or could it have been the beer. The speech was stupid and boring. The audience sounded like they were about to fall asleep. The German socialists love the Obama; they can have him.
As far as you accusing the Bush Administration trying to bar US foriegn service workers from attending the Obama speech, could you please share the AP or Reuters news article? Reading it on DaileyKos isn't good enough for me.
Snerd:
That's quite an unsubstantiated accusation. You keep forgetting I've been an Army wife for 15 years. Here are the Do's and Dont's for Troops and Politics from the Political Activities by Members of the Armed Forces on Active Duty.
They include:
Believe it or not, the Bush administration didn't make up these rules. A soldier can participate in the political process but not wearing a uniform.
Is there a link to the "story" that the Bush admin prohibited anyone from attending? That would be an impossibility so I'd be interested to see it.
If banning foreign diplomats to f(R)ee-speech zones was always the policy, why was it suddenly brought up now? "What's Happened"? Is there nothing "W" doesn't politicize?
Maybe we can get (R)ove to answer that question ... but it'll have to be behind closed doors, with no notes taken, no oath sworn, and with no body present ....
Snerd
p.s. Those requested Links
Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/23/AR2008072303388.html?sub=AR
L.A. Times
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/07/obama-berlin.html
AOL
http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/24/foreign-service-workers-banned-from-speech/
Your answer was in one of the stories you linked to.
"We always maintain that no U.S. government Foreign Service person overseas should be seen to be advocating one side or the other," -Patrick Kennedy
I guess you were too busy trying to show off how clever you think you a(R)e using the shift an(D) pa(R)entheses to notice that the Hatch Act applies.
Just because the little godling thinks he's been elected (or at least is acting like he does) does not make it so. If he wants to photo-op on foreign soil in front of famous landmarks (btw, the collumn he was at was the one where "sieg heil was first used. Rather fitting for a man who cannot be questioned, confronted or criticized in any way shape or form without the race card being played.
(R)-Job: ""We always maintain that no U.S. government Foreign Service person overseas should be seen to be advocating one side or the other," -Patrick Kennedy"
SG: "If banning foreign diplomats to f(R)ee-speech zones was always the policy, why was it suddenly brought up now?
I don't remember diplomats having to be banned before .... But suddenly with McInane having an off the bus ... a away off the bus "I like Schnitzel 2" moment, we see "What Happened"
Maybe (R)ove could tell 'US' why the Peoples' Government has become an extension of the (R) Party ... once again, only if he's on Fox or not under Oath, or behind closed doors with no note taking ... It's the only way (R)ove could do the question "Justice".
Anywayz, this is the way the Diplomats Union sees it, 'cause they are appealing the o(R)de(R)
Snerd
Kennedy cited section 4123.3 of the third volume of the lengthy manual of personnel regulations for the Foreign Service, which says: "A U.S. citizen employee, spouse, or family member shall not engage in partisan political activities abroad."
In the interview, Kennedy described the regulation as "a standing policy," although he acknowledged that "I don't believe we've ever had to interpret this before. None of us thinking about this could come up with a precedent" for the Obama campaign rally.
You know what, Snerd. the reasons for the ban are there in black and white. I've been interested in politics since Reagan. I don't think there has been a presumptive presidential candidate give a politcal speech in another country. He wasn't on a fact finding mission. He wasn't sent there as a special ambassador for America. The only reason the Germans gave him the time of day was because he's a POLITICAL CANDIDATE. You don't think this was a political trip then why did the Obama do this:
Obama scraps visit to wounded troops
Jul 24 04:09 PM US/Eastern
BERLIN (AP) - Sen. Barack Obama scrapped plans to visit wounded members of the armed forces in Germany as part of his overseas trip, a decision his spokesman said was made because the Democratic presidential candidate thought it would be inappropriate on a campaign-funded journey.
WHOOPS, SNERD... I guess your crying and moaning doesn't mean a thing. The Obama just admitted that his trip was POLITICAL. Your arguement just flew out the window. LOLOLOL ROFLMAO Extremely bad move in not seeing the troops. It's going to hurt the Obama.
Personally, I don't what they are crying about. They missed a pompous, elitist boring speech. I watched it from beginning to end. The Germans in the audience seemed to be sitting on their hands, especially when he told them that they need to help us more in Afghanistan. From all the lofty goals he spoke about, he might as well have said "that he was for breathing". As a political speech it SUCKED.
Somebody tell 'Punchy' that more than 300,000 American 'yes men' gave their lives in the war to liberate EUROPEANS from OTHER EUROPEANS so that PUNCHY could type his insulting and witless comments here in ENGLISH.
Every time I see Obama's bizarre assertion that 'bringing home American troops from Iraq = ending the war" I am going to challenge it. Saddam Hussein started the war in 1990, a Coalition of nations fought him and attempted to enforce UN resolution 1441 (and others) while he launched over 500 attacks on the UN forces in 2002 alone.
In Obama's logic, if you withdraw your team from the field you automatically win.
BTW, it was a polical gaffe for BHO to blow off the wounded vets in favor of the liberal Germans, but it was a socially smart move: most of the combat wounded are Bush/McCain supporters and (*gasp*) FOX News viwers.
"SG: "If banning foreign diplomats to f(R)ee-speech zones was always the policy, why was it suddenly brought up now?"
It's called a reminder, Snerd. Most lifetime State Department employeed overseas are often not with the party in office. They are also career bureaucrats with short memories as to what they are supposed to do and not do. ANY sitting president would do it, especially if there was a guy who seems to think he is special and followers who think the same.
I wonder what Snerd would be saying if McCain had chosen one of Hitler's favorite landmarks as a backdrop the way Obama did. Especially since Obama's doing it doesn't seem to bother him along with Obama's assertions that he cannot be criticized in any way.
You guys are amazing. You take any--and I mean any comment or question about the military as "insulting the troops". I suppose by announcing that, yes, I fully support all the soliders, home and abroad, I've somehow insulted the troops. Showed egregious disdain. I'm not sure how, but clearly I've completely crossed a line. Somehow.
I'm sure I'll find out in a few hours.
The Obama just admitted that his trip was POLITICAL
A politician taking a trip that was politcal? What a surprise.
As for those that criticize Obama for not spending time with soliders at the base, it's because the PENTAGON told them he could not go.
I'm sorry, Punchy, give me a link from someone other than a lefitist blogger and I might believe it. This is the word of a left wing blogger.
Per your link:
OK!
I just saw on the news that Obama was apprised of military rules that his huge entourage would not be able to accompany him to meet with U.S. troops in Germany and only a DOD photograher would be present, and Obama decided since he couldn't bring his mirade of worshippers, i.e., MSM, he decided to cancel.
Obama decided to cancel, the DOD did't tell him he couldn't meet with troops.
Calling ANY news network fair and balanced these days is extrememly laughable. Ecspecially one that had on retired military officials who then went to work for defense contractors who benifited from the war on their news programs urging us to invade Iraq (as FOX didhttp://articles.latimes.com/2008/may/23/nation/na-analysts23 ). The other networks can be discounted because they are simply cashing in on the reactionary anger against the mistakes of this last administration, also disregarding truth for ratings. We would make much better progress as a people if we all stopped saying "I watch this network because it fair and balanced" and start saying, "I watch this network because I agree with what they are saying." Thus, the most important thing you said wsa BECAUSE THEY WANT TO. I beleive Senator Obama recognizes that within the divisions we have in this country there are many facets & opinions and no easy answers. However, we do all have common interests which absolutely have to be resolved and soon. That is why he went on FOX to be interviewed when everyone said he was crazy for doing so. Hes trying to speak to everyone, even those who watch Fox News.
BA posts:
"
Mr. Obama is not the type of man who should lead a group of soldiers. Egomaniacs get their own men or wormen killed for no good reason.
"
-------
Uh, the only egomaniac that I have seen recently that got their(and others) own men and women killed for no good reason is Bushy. Well, I guess if you count that a war for oil is not a good reason. Please get real.
Toby ... a Fair and Balanced assessment!
Snerd
Amy: "I'm sorry, Punchy, give me a link from someone other than a lefitist [sic] blogger and I might believe it. [t(R)anslation: I only believe what I already believe, and what I already believe is the only thing believable ... This is the word of a (R)ight wing blogger.] This is the word of a left wing blogger.
SG: ... (R)ich!
Snerd
Penta-Gong: "We told him he could visit Landstuhl (Regional Medical Center in western Germany) with his Senate staff, but not with his campaign staff," said Army Lt. Col. Elizabeth Hibner.
SG: Gee! ... I wonder where his Senate staff was ... back in the States, p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y?
Anyone who honestly asks themselves "What's Happening" clearly sees the politicization of everything.
Oh ... and there goes Lt. Col. Hibner's chances of any further promotion.
Snerd
"SG: "If banning foreign diplomats to f(R)ee-speech zones was always the policy, why was it suddenly brought up now?"
(R)-Job: It's called a reminder, Snerd.
SG: Yes! ... How 'CON-venient'
(R)-Job: Most lifetime State Department employeed ... are also career bureaucrats with short memories
SG: Like ... You'll just smea(R) anybody, in the attempt to maintain the (R)ight's purity-from-any-possibility-of-fault, won't you.
If you criticize the (R)ight then that proves you are (D)emonic and so smea(R)ing them is the 'gawdly' thing to do ... because it's (R)ight!
The ci(R)cula(R) p(R)oof ...
Snerd
Penta-Gong: "We told him he could visit Landstuhl (Regional Medical Center in western Germany) with his Senate staff, but not with his campaign staff," said Army Lt. Col. Elizabeth Hibner.
SG: Gee! ... I wonder where his Senate staff was ... back in the States, p-o-s-s-i-b-l-y?
Snerd
What's wrong with the Obama??? The messiah that wants to be Commander in Chief won't meet with wounded servicemen all by his lonesome. AHHH, he doesn't have someone to hold his hand. Pooor little baby. Or maybe the good Reverend Jesse Jackson cut the Obama's NUTS off after all?
Da: "What's wrong with the [200,000] Obama??? The messiah that wants to be Commander in Chief won't meet with wounded servicemen all by his lonesome. AHHH, he doesn't have someone to hold his hand. Pooor little baby. Or maybe the good Reverend Jesse Jackson cut the Obama's NUTS off after all?
SG: Well 'Da', I'll give you that it might have appeared better from your current perspective if he'd visited the wounded troops, but then he'd have to deal with your, "Look, he's exploiting troops who had to see him because they couldn't leave their beds"
But lets be real as opposed to '(R)eal' ...
* It's not as if he was cutting combat pay,
* denying education after service,
* cutting medical coverage of vets,
* leaving wounded soldiers uncared for in moldy surroundings
* commissioning a back door d(R)aft
* etc., etc., etc.
So ....
Obama 200,000
McCain 2
Da .02
Snerd
"If you criticize the (R)ight then that proves you are (D)emonic and so smea(R)ing them is the 'gawdly' thing to do ... because it's (R)ight!"
Look, these people know, or should know what they are allowed to do or not do. Remember the PATCO strike? the controllers were reminded that was illegal for them to strike by statute and contract. They chose to strike. They were given 48 hours to return to work. Many refused. Many were terminated.
Career bureaucrats of any political stripe are generally arrogant and think they have earned privilidges others do not have. Don't believe me, tell me about your wonderful experiences at the DMV.
Diplomats are no different, no many are worse as they can claim immunity of foreign soil and treat it as a license. NYC would never have another fiscal worry if they could collect the parking tickets issued to UN people. If they are employed at the embassy then they are on US soil and subject to her laws. If they have a problem with it, well they can join the PATCO people if finding other employment.